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Double Bass Stinkbomb post about modern neck construction methods

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I was more thinking about a CF heel/neck with wooden fingerboard and a wooden pegbox/scroll graft, on a wooden double bass. Maybe a CF tailpiece. Enough wood to affect tone. Enough CF to provide strength.

But I don't know what adhesives work and are maintainable with wood and CF. And I'm not aware of temperature related expansion/contraction rates. These are important considerations.

A removable neck might take care of some of those concerns.
 
...or, is it about disclosing to the buyer what is inside of their "all maple" neck?

Many here have indicated that it doesn't matter to them, but Upton's angle in the video seems to be "Why not be up front about it?".

Regardless, this is an entertaining thread.
I didn't hear that in the video, unless there was more content that didn't play. It was quite clearly an attempt to disparage a competitor for using a technique Upton doesn't like. As I stated before, I own an Upton now, and at one time had two. I'd buy from them again. But I think that post was an error in judgement, which we are all guilty of now and then.
 
I didn't hear that in the video, unless there was more content that didn't play. It was quite clearly an attempt to disparage a competitor for using a technique Upton doesn't like. As I stated before, I own an Upton now, and at one time had two. I'd buy from them again. But I think that post was an error in judgement, which we are all guilty of now and then.

I bet'cha dollars to doughnuts one of the younger employees down on the totem poll is delegated to maintaining their social media and is just grasping at straws for new, engaging content. If someone (anyone?) sent them a message pointing out what a lame business move it was, I would be surprised if the people actually in charge didn't take it down immediately.

I tell you what, though - I had a secret desire to get Upton to make me a removable neck 5-string at some point eventually…. Now, not so much.

(… not to mention, my new Shen 5'r is breaking in marvelously - it's a phenomenal instrument and I love the confidence of knowing my OCD driven, perfected setup isn't going to budge.)

I'm reminded of an old adage I read in my youth, if I may paraphrase:

Beware of anyone who tries to make themselves seem or feel taller by cutting the head of others.

It's dirty pool.
 
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So, we're on the edge of the cliff... Why not build a neck out of CF? Maybe attach harddwood fingerboard and an original wooden scroll/pegbox to it?

Are we there yet?
One of the main principles of instrument building and repair is that each glue joint should be reversible. I've learned that there is also the concern of feasibility. For instance, consider a badly broken scroll/pegbox on a school instrument where epoxy might be the better choice. Hide glue probably won't hold there, and if it ever breaks again it goes on the pile.

OK. Hide glue doesn't work as well on modern materials as well as it does on wood. I've experimented with fingerboards made from an engineered wood/polymer commonly known as pakkawood. This has many advantages over ebony, mainly extreme hardness and stiffness. A good adhesive for this is a PVA like titebond, but I would never glue a fingerboard to a good old Kay neck with titebond because if they ever have to come apart the neck will be destroyed. A tapered shim or thin maple veneer would be glued to the neck with hide glue and then titebond would be used for the fingerboard. This is one example, but one could see the problem when joining modern materials and wood.
 
To be clear further down on the thread the Upton account responds "the fingerboard was getting pushed off the neck by the swelling of the cap wood hiding the rebar". They didn't just pull it apart for no reason.
 
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One of the main principles of instrument building and repair is that each glue joint should be reversible. I've learned that there is also the concern of feasibility. For instance, consider a badly broken scroll/pegbox on a school instrument where epoxy might be the better choice. Hide glue probably won't hold there, and if it ever breaks again it goes on the pile.

OK. Hide glue doesn't work as well on modern materials as well as it does on wood. I've experimented with fingerboards made from an engineered wood/polymer commonly known as pakkawood. This has many advantages over ebony, mainly extreme hardness and stiffness. A good adhesive for this is a PVA like titebond, but I would never glue a fingerboard to a good old Kay neck with titebond because if they ever have to come apart the neck will be destroyed. A tapered shim or thin maple veneer would be glued to the neck with hide glue and then titebond would be used for the fingerboard. This is one example, but one could see the problem when joining modern materials and wood.

Thank you, I was wondering about a fingerboard shim that way... Because on my Alcoa, with the alumiinum neck that has a battleship-like repair to keep it from bending again, there is a hardwood (like rosewood) shim that is glued directly to the neck using a pernicious aircraft contact adhesive. Then there's the hardwood (like rosewood) fingerboard that is glued to the shim using hide glue. So the shim will probably never come off unless it is belt-sanded off, but the fingerboard is relatively easily replaceable.

To me, the possible wooden pegbox/scroll graft to the end of a CF neck sounds more challengnig where adhesives might be concerned.
 
I don't see that post. Would you be so kind as to post a link?
943006F4-7824-4D74-8F7D-D5400B5AB153.png
 
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I don't know, guys — I call shenanigans.

Like the the next comment says, there would have to be A LOT of swelling to pop up the fingerboard. How exactly does that little strip of wood (inside the neck, mind you) get exposed to that much humidity?

More likely this bass had been heavily used and legitimately needed a new fingerboard. Some tech at their shop felt it a great opportunity to play Scooby Doo. They would have had to really work to get that much material off to expose the metal (they call it "rebar?")- it wouldn't have just popped off with the fingerboard. But then, they needed to backpedal and blame someone else. Publicly?

The whole thing stinks like last week's casserole.

<cue film noir music>
 
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I don't know, guys — I call shenanigans.

Like the the next comment says, there would have to be A LOT of swelling to pop up the fingerboard. How exactly does that little strip of wood (inside the neck, mind you) get exposed to that much humidity?

More likely this bass had been heavily used and legitimately needed a new fingerboard. Some tech at their shop felt it a great opportunity to play Scooby Doo. They would have had to really work to get that much material off to expose the metal (they call it "rebar?")- it wouldn't have just popped off with the fingerboard. But then, they needed to backpedal and blame someone else. Publicly?

The whole thing stinks like last week's casserole.

<cue film noir music>
I see a lot of fingerboards which are loose down there from getting bumped or whatever. It's possible that was the case but we will never really know.
 
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Now I'm going to have to shop online for some Pernicious Aircraft Contact Adhesive.

Yea, it's ugly stuff. Fortunately the people who did the repair work did a sufficient job with the neck/shim/fingerboard assembly, but they also used it to glue the original endpin plug into its aluminum socket and made a mess -- it will never come out gently. I'll have to literally ream out the old plug when it''s finally cracked enough to replace it.

Using this aircraft contact cement for anything that should ever rightfully need to be disassembled is a big mistake.
 
Hi Guys, it's been a minute since posting here, I'll be posting a response with my thoughts on this sometime in the next few days on our Instagram @uptonbass

Instagram is the worst of the worst, my guy. Anything filtered through that BS comparative-culture medium is going to have a stink of manure afterwards, guaranteed. I don't have an Instagram or Facebook or 'X' account. Why not post your response here on this forum where we are discussing it? Seems weird to post a response here that says essentially 'make sure you follow us on instagram for more potentially controversial content' … social media is a plague on humanity, imho.

*I apologize for my abrasive personality. This is an example of even the best social media bringing out the worst in me.
 
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good makers are not screwing anything inside the neck.

glued carbon or graphite (i wish i knew the difference!) reinforcement rods are fairly standard now. even some more old-school violinmakers are including it.

my bass came standard with reinforcement rods, but they're glued in place.

buy from a reputable maker and little details like this are not much concern of yours.
 
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It would indeed be much better if Upton included this thread in their response.
Some one here will post it anyway and without Upton's associated justification, the sewer will remain open.
 
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I bet'cha dollars to doughnuts one of the younger employees down on the totem poll is delegated to maintaining their social media and is just grasping at straws for new, engaging content. If someone (anyone?) sent them a message pointing out what a lame business move it was, I would be surprised if the people actually in charge didn't take it down immediately.

I tell you what, though - I had a secret desire to get Upton to make me a removable neck 5-string at some point eventually…. Now, not so much.

(… not to mention, my new Shen 5'r is breaking in marvelously - it's a phenomenal instrument and I love the confidence of knowing my OCD driven, perfected setup isn't going to budge.)

I'm reminded of an old adage I read in my youth, if I may paraphrase:

Beware of anyone who tries to make themselves seem or feel taller by cutting the head of others.


It's dirty pool.
Thank you! I'm glad you're enjoying your new 5, thrilled to be honest. We built a few 5s on the Rogeri outline but really you need that big Gemunder outline to support the needs of a 5-string. A lot of people look at a 5 as killing 4 strings to make one good one, and we tried our best to not do that.
 
Hi Guys, it's been a minute since posting here, I'll be posting a response with my thoughts on this sometime in the next few days on our Instagram @uptonbass

Why would you not post here? Are you still reeling from the negative fallout over your Mr. Roy's old "hit piece" post about Chinese basses being shipped in cargo holds for long journeys across the oceans? Reverse the scenario. What if you got a bunch of orders from Chinese customers? How would you ship to them?
 
Why would you not post here? Are you still reeling from the negative fallout over your Mr. Roy's old "hit piece" post about Chinese basses being shipped in cargo holds for long journeys across the oceans? Reverse the scenario. What if you got a bunch of orders from Chinese customers? How would you ship to them?

Probably needed to consult a PR firm to figure out how to word it and do damage control. He can't/won't rein in the author who is a core part of his operation. Someone who seems not to understand that content like YouTube influencers trying to get millions of clicks through clickbait, exaggerations and disinformation isn't in the best interest of that company or in a niche that the DB world lives in.
 
Just a general reminder to all to post respectfully even when you disagree with another poster. Reasoned arguments and discussion are allowed, but when directed at other TB/DB members, insults and disrespect are not.

This is a tough line to walk because of the singular nature of this thread. The video in the OP, had it been posted by a member of the company to which it is attributed, would not have been allowed as it appears to be a direct negative comment on the practices of a competitor when both companies are represented by actual members here on Talkbass. However, as the video appears to have been posted by a 3rd party in earnest and sparked an interesting discussion about modern bass making methods, it was allowed to remain in the interest of educational information, and the weigh ins by repairers and luthiers were crucial to this decision. A direct reply to the implied criticism in the video was allowed by the target organization out of fairness.

But beyond this, we are limited in what we can say here. It is fine to say "I do/don't believe that DB necks should be reinforced in this way and here's why...". It's also fine to say "I do/don't believe this sort of social media attack from one company toward another is a healthy thing and here's why...". But beyond these things, interactions between members need to remain respectful on Talkbass even if they don't appear very respectful on social media outside of Talkbass.

The moderators and admins here can't control what people do elsewhere; we can only moderate and mitigate what happens here on our little slice of the internet. Beyond that, in order to stay within the bounds of our site owner's vision of how the site should be run, namely:

"All registered users must address fellow members with the utmost respect at all times. If you do not agree with a fellow member, be courteous in your response. Thomas Jefferson said it best: "When I hear another express an opinion which is not mine, I say to myself, he has a right to his opinion, as I to mine".

Because of the limitations of text-based communication, the expression of intent can be tricky. One of the most common triggers of rule violations is the misinterpretation of intent behind a post. Use smilies often, and remember, it never hurts to begin a response with "In my opinion"..."


We should strive to take the high road whenever given the chance, and hope that the reader will see what is happening for themselves and make up their own minds.

We have had several reports about this thread. So far, the moderator consensus is that the Talkbass membership has largely behaved and stayed in bounds given the inflammatory nature of the original post, but that moving forward, we need to rein it in a bit when it comes to interactions with other members of the site. To this end:

- it may well be that the reply that several members are hoping would be posted here could not be posted here because of our site rule against commenting negatively on the competition. In that case, we will have to understand and accept this fact.

- If that is the case and someone unaffiliated posts a link to the response on other social media, then membership here can only comment on their approval or disapproval of that response or the medium on which it was delivered in respectful terms. Please consider these points before hitting "send" as we move forward.
 
Instagram is the worst of the worst

Instagram has a lot of bad places, but one of the most positive and happy corners of Instagram is actually a thriving community of double bass luthiers that I see frequently complimenting each other's work and encouraging one another. Of course a forum like Instagram can't all be kittens and chocolate (or skittles and beer, or whatever's your fancy), but a lot of members of the luthiery community are really kind and positive people, and I love to see it. Honestly, I think that community is part of the reason we're in such a golden age of instrument building - folks are really sharing their wisdom, ideas, and experience, and it's driving innovation. I have a long list of builders I follow and every post is a little bit of bass joy for me.
 
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