Stoner/Doom Bassists Thread, Part 90: Maxed Out

[El_Charro]

Before you spend lots of money in gear... I'd get some amp and FX sims first. You could try a cheap Zoom Multi FX pedal or Guitar Rig in your computer. I think there is an official Darkglass VST by Neural DSP with a free trial.

-------------------------
Thank you for sharing this...

Wasn't aware that it was out there, but definitely nice to know since that even looks less expensive to mess with than a pedal...

I'm definitely leaning towards buying a pedal by them before I go all out for an amp head or head/cab rig made by them...

I'm hoping the pedal will give me a somewhat decent idea of what their equipment sounds like before I drop like $1200 on an head to start building a rig...

Thanks! \m/

 

[Kaa]

-------------------------
Thank you for sharing this...

Wasn't aware that it was out there, but definitely nice to know since that even looks less expensive to mess with than a pedal...

I'm definitely leaning towards buying a pedal by them before I go all out for an amp head or head/cab rig made by them...

I'm hoping the pedal will give me a somewhat decent idea of what their equipment sounds like before I drop like $1200 on an head to start building a rig...

Thanks! \m/

Man, that's spendy.
Buy a Peavey Combo 300. It's cheap.

 

[El_Charro]

Man, that's spendy.
Buy a Peavey Combo 300. It's cheap.

----------------------
Yep, agree it's spendy, but I'm willing to shell out for it if it's quality and it won't break down on me...

Part of the reason I have so many questions about equipment and amps is bc I'm okay with shelling out for something as long as its quality, but I wanna make sure I get what I want and its going to do what I want it to do...

I also don't really seem to have good music stores around me (or ones that sell what I'm after) so it's incredibly hard to try things before I buy them...Online shopping is fine for the most part, but I had a similar problem last year when I was shopping for an axe- It seems like the stores around me carry similar instruments and most aren't what I'm looking at somehow...

Although please don't take my post to mean that expensive equipment somehow makes you a "better" player bc that's totally not what I was imply (lol-if ONLY man...Cause BOY do I need more practice)...

Thanks! \m/

 

[lucas303]

@El_Charro Take this for what it's worth because I'm no authority, but some of my favorite gear is cheap stuff. For example, my Dingwall NG2 sits mostly unused in part because I love the feel and sound of my bottom-of-the-barrel Ibanez basses so much. (And I'm not kidding about the bottom...one of them is a GSR105EX. Go ahead and look up how much that bad boy costs.) Also out of all the amps and cabs I own (and have owned) my absolute favorite tone is from my Peavey Max 208 combo. I mention this stuff not just to point out that cheap gear can get the job done, but also because no one on the Interwebz would've recommended that I get a Peavey Max 208 or the absolute cheapest offering from Ibanez. Recommendations from others can only get you so far, unfortunately. (In fact I used to have a Fender Rumble combo, which will be recommended left and right on Talkbass, and I absolutely hated it. My experiences with other Rumbles have not changed my mind.)

I'd say you should start off with your objective requirements like how loud you need to be, what size/weight you want your cab/amp to be, etc. Use that to narrow things down and then start to try to figure out what comes closest to your subjective requirements. At the end of the day, though, those of us who can't go demo a wide range of gear need to accept that we'll either (1) be spending a bunch of money on trial and error, or (2) taking our best shot with buying once and making the most of what we get.

 

[Andysalt01]

Hey, sorry to burst in.

But Im recording some doomish, sludgeish defo stoner metal stuff in a high quality pro studio this weekend.
And I just got my Matamp GT200, and a brand new Barefaced 610 Cab. We did 2 songs out of 9 yesterday. And the sound was insanley good!!

I also use the Dunable Yeti bass.

But here is the thing, I always used fuzzes like BATW Pharao, Damnation Audio, Minotaur FX etc. And other distortions and fuzzez. I loved fuzz and OD so much in my bass sound through a Ampeg 810 with a Ampeg PF800 SS that I ALWAYS had them on, and learned to use them differenty. But I NEVER played clean.

Now having that epic Matamp GT200 tube amp with 200watts, We got mind blown by how god it sounded without fuzzes etc. It stayed fairly clean and we cranked it to 9 with full drive.

My question, do you have any experience using Orange amps or Matamps or ANY other 100-200w amps for recording?
Do you just use the amps natural drive but stay fairly clean? Or do you use pedals to get the fuzz going even more?

Nice rig! I share your quandary!! Personally I'd spend time before recording getting your sound set. I guess if you like it cleaner now then go with that but see how it best sits in the mix with your guitarist. If you need girthier tone, add the fuzz. I'd always take a clean Di though so you have options down the line and allow some pinch to be added if needed. My last album I ended up with a much cleaner tone than I expected tbh. Sits well on the mix bit I feel a bit more depth would be nice on the next one.

Anyway, here's my rig from last night's rehearsal just for a laugh. Singer didn't turn up due to a fuel crisis here so me and the guitarist went for it on volume. Loud valve amps rule.

 

[Sapatown]

Hi Everybody,

A few posts back (please forgive me for being too lazy to go back and look)…Someone on this thread mentioned they liked the Darkglass Microtubes 900 amp…

I have now kind of jumped down the Darkglass rabbit hole while researching pedals and amps (and not sure there’s much of an exit the more I listen to demos of their stuff on YouTube)…

An actual amp head made by them wasn’t something I had really considered until recently…

Pardon me if this is a stupid question, but from a high level perspective-Is Darkglass’s stuff sufficient to providing enough distortion for Stoner Metal???…

To add a bit more context to my question-I had been looking at a Big Muff Pi and possibly an Ampeg head/combo bc it seems like it’s easier to get a more “vintage” sound…I was pretty set that this is what I eventually wanted until I read up more on Darkglass…

For some reason in my head I tend to associate Darkglass with Death Metal/Swedish Metal bands and Djent sounding bands like Meshuggah whereas I tend to associate the Big Muff Pi and the Ampeg with a more “vintage” or “warmer” sound…I’m not sure if this is bc I’ve been listening to some harder Metal lately…

In the past I didn’t really listen to a lot of Death Metal as a genre bc I’m not big on the Cookie Monster sounding vocals like Cannibal Corpse, but I’m trying to be more open minded and find some bands that have more melodic or less harsh vocals…I like the bass sound on some of the bands I’ve been listening to lately, but starting to wonder how much listening to more of that genre is driving my current gear lust…

Back to my Darkglass question…

I’ve read where some people claim they don’t like them bc they sound too “sterile” or too “compressed”…This was also a complaint I’ve read about active EMGs, but I still really love how active EMGs sound…

Just wondering how many people here use Darkglass gear in a Stoner Rock/Metal band setting…

I will probably buy a pedal before I splurge for an amp head, but whats still confusing me a little bit-I get that the Alpha Omicron is a distortion pedal (not technically a “fuzz” pedal), but what is the difference between it and the Big Muff Pi??? Aren’t fuzz pedals just more powerful distortion pedals???…

I have watched a few videos that talk about wave diagrams and how clipping occurs and they give the semantically difference of the two, but I still don’t quite “get” the difference between a distortion pedal and an all out fuzz pedal other than it’s my current understanding that fuzz pedals tend to sound a little bit “warmer”…(That statement might also be erroneous bc auditory perception varies by person)…

Granted, I’m not good enough to start a band yet (V E R Y slowly trying to get there) so this maybe a moot point until I understand exactly what sound I want in a band setting…

Aware I can add a fuzz pedal to the signal chain, just trying to understand how versatile the Darkglass stuff is and how close it would get me on insane levels of distortion…

Sure a clean bass tone is great and all, but I tend to love loads of distortion in my music so I’m a “more the merrier” kind of person on that sound…

Aware I’m probably WAAAY overthinking this one, but that’s kind of my M.O. so feedback on this question is welcome…

Thanks! \m/

I think it's tough to say what is enough distortion for stoner metal (or any type of metal) because there's so much room for variety. Take Al Cisneros for example. There's a guy that can go from gnarly fuzz to clean to synthy, all in the same set.

That said, maybe check out what this guy uses because he seems to cover a lot of ground in terms of doom/stoner tones:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0B0JPGg6g6Y0jg5r43Sciw



Just casually strolling into the Stoner/Doom thread with a Dunable/Matamp/Barefaced rig

(I'm no help here.)

I wish it was a laugh button here. But yes Im bankrupt broke now! That rig was worth it tough.

 

[Sapatown]

Nice rig! I share your quandary!! Personally I'd spend time before recording getting your sound set. I guess if you like it cleaner now then go with that but see how it best sits in the mix with your guitarist. If you need girthier tone, add the fuzz. I'd always take a clean Di though so you have options down the line and allow some pinch to be added if needed. My last album I ended up with a much cleaner tone than I expected tbh. Sits well on the mix bit I feel a bit more depth would be nice on the next one.

Anyway, here's my rig from last night's rehearsal just for a laugh. Singer didn't turn up due to a fuel crisis here so me and the guitarist went for it on volume. Loud valve amps rule.

View attachment 4423996

Thanks man!!!!
Yeah, I really could try to set the pedals better before entering the studio if I had more time.
But our band just practiced the riffs and playing so much the pedal work happens basically when recording.

We just set the levels and it usually sounds the way we want, but I went alot of clean tube amp for this one with the drive on full. I think Im just worrying too much on all the variables.

 

[El_Charro]

Nice rig! I share your quandary!! Personally I'd spend time before recording getting your sound set. I guess if you like it cleaner now then go with that but see how it best sits in the mix with your guitarist. If you need girthier tone, add the fuzz. I'd always take a clean Di though so you have options down the line and allow some pinch to be added if needed. My last album I ended up with a much cleaner tone than I expected tbh. Sits well on the mix bit I feel a bit more depth would be nice on the next one.

Anyway, here's my rig from last night's rehearsal just for a laugh. Singer didn't turn up due to a fuel crisis here so me and the guitarist went for it on volume. Loud valve amps rule.

View attachment 4423996

——————————————-
Just curious, but what kind of bass is the soap bar style one on the far right???…

That’s a REALLY nice looking instrument…

Thanks! \m/

 

[Kawai2g4b]

Hi Everybody,

A few posts back (please forgive me for being too lazy to go back and look)…Someone on this thread mentioned they liked the Darkglass Microtubes 900 amp…

I have now kind of jumped down the Darkglass rabbit hole while researching pedals and amps (and not sure there’s much of an exit the more I listen to demos of their stuff on YouTube)…

An actual amp head made by them wasn’t something I had really considered until recently…

Pardon me if this is a stupid question, but from a high level perspective-Is Darkglass’s stuff sufficient to providing enough distortion for Stoner Metal???…

To add a bit more context to my question-I had been looking at a Big Muff Pi and possibly an Ampeg head/combo bc it seems like it’s easier to get a more “vintage” sound…I was pretty set that this is what I eventually wanted until I read up more on Darkglass…

For some reason in my head I tend to associate Darkglass with Death Metal/Swedish Metal bands and Djent sounding bands like Meshuggah whereas I tend to associate the Big Muff Pi and the Ampeg with a more “vintage” or “warmer” sound…I’m not sure if this is bc I’ve been listening to some harder Metal lately…

In the past I didn’t really listen to a lot of Death Metal as a genre bc I’m not big on the Cookie Monster sounding vocals like Cannibal Corpse, but I’m trying to be more open minded and find some bands that have more melodic or less harsh vocals…I like the bass sound on some of the bands I’ve been listening to lately, but starting to wonder how much listening to more of that genre is driving my current gear lust…

Back to my Darkglass question…

I’ve read where some people claim they don’t like them bc they sound too “sterile” or too “compressed”…This was also a complaint I’ve read about active EMGs, but I still really love how active EMGs sound…

Just wondering how many people here use Darkglass gear in a Stoner Rock/Metal band setting…

I will probably buy a pedal before I splurge for an amp head, but whats still confusing me a little bit-I get that the Alpha Omicron is a distortion pedal (not technically a “fuzz” pedal), but what is the difference between it and the Big Muff Pi??? Aren’t fuzz pedals just more powerful distortion pedals???…

I have watched a few videos that talk about wave diagrams and how clipping occurs and they give the semantically difference of the two, but I still don’t quite “get” the difference between a distortion pedal and an all out fuzz pedal other than it’s my current understanding that fuzz pedals tend to sound a little bit “warmer”…(That statement might also be erroneous bc auditory perception varies by person)…

Granted, I’m not good enough to start a band yet (V E R Y slowly trying to get there) so this maybe a moot point until I understand exactly what sound I want in a band setting…

Aware I can add a fuzz pedal to the signal chain, just trying to understand how versatile the Darkglass stuff is and how close it would get me on insane levels of distortion…

Sure a clean bass tone is great and all, but I tend to love loads of distortion in my music so I’m a “more the merrier” kind of person on that sound…

Aware I’m probably WAAAY overthinking this one, but that’s kind of my M.O. so feedback on this question is welcome…

Thanks! \m/

I don’t disagree with your assessment to a point. I will say that, for stoner rock, my Hilbish Sol Invictus preamp (I have the Red Fang Night Destroyer signature version) absolutely nails the tones you are looking for without sounding djent-y. Plus, you can blend a dirty and cleaner channel should you want to in order to maintain your low end.

I must say that the Darkglass stuff is great, but it’s overdriven signature tone definitely has an edgier quality. You really need to break it in with a couple other guitarists to see if it can play well in a stoner-ish setting.

 

[El_Charro]

@El_Charro Take this for what it's worth because I'm no authority, but some of my favorite gear is cheap stuff. For example, my Dingwall NG2 sits mostly unused in part because I love the feel and sound of my bottom-of-the-barrel Ibanez basses so much. (And I'm not kidding about the bottom...one of them is a GSR105EX. Go ahead and look up how much that bad boy costs.) Also out of all the amps and cabs I own (and have owned) my absolute favorite tone is from my Peavey Max 208 combo. I mention this stuff not just to point out that cheap gear can get the job done, but also because no one on the Interwebz would've recommended that I get a Peavey Max 208 or the absolute cheapest offering from Ibanez. Recommendations from others can only get you so far, unfortunately. (In fact I used to have a Fender Rumble combo, which will be recommended left and right on Talkbass, and I absolutely hated it. My experiences with other Rumbles have not changed my mind.)

I'd say you should start off with your objective requirements like how loud you need to be, what size/weight you want your cab/amp to be, etc. Use that to narrow things down and then start to try to figure out what comes closest to your subjective requirements. At the end of the day, though, those of us who can't go demo a wide range of gear need to accept that we'll either (1) be spending a bunch of money on trial and error, or (2) taking our best shot with buying once and making the most of what we get.

————————————————————————————————-
Thank you for responding…

I’m with you that cost does not in any way correlate with sound…

I guess all that I was getting at was that I’d rather pay a decent chunk of change up front and then not buy anything else for the next decade than buy something cheap and then stare at it for a few years while wishing it were something else while being frustrated with myself for not springing for what I really wanted from the get go…

I’m pretty sure if I purchased something that was cheaper but not what I wanted that I would probably eventually breakdown and buy whatever it was that I originally wanted later any way <—- I’m not sure from a Microeconomic Economic consumer choice theory standpoint if this means that I’m an irrational consumer or not-I’m just saying that it’s more of a pattern I’ve noticed with myself in the past (although in my defense-not all economic decisions are “rational” any way but that’s a whole other discussion)…

I have looked into more expensive basses as well, but honestly once I get above the $1k price range I tend to lose interest (and even that is kinda pushing it)…

Even wanting a Fender I think I’d rather have a MIM Player Series over s MIA so I can beat it like a rented mule for years and not worry about how expensive it was…

I think I’d have a harder time enjoying an expensive bass bc I think this would be me worrying about how “fragile” my expensive bass would be:

As a side note…

One of the things I love about playing is that there don’t seem to be any “rules” per se…

I hadn’t really thought of this until just now, but if I like the sound of the Darkglass better I suppose that answers my own question even if it doesn’t “usually” go with a Stoner Metal sound??? <—-[Lol-Maybe???]

Thanks! \m/

 

[El_Charro]

@El_Charro Take this for what it's worth because I'm no authority, but some of my favorite gear is cheap stuff. For example, my Dingwall NG2 sits mostly unused in part because I love the feel and sound of my bottom-of-the-barrel Ibanez basses so much. (And I'm not kidding about the bottom...one of them is a GSR105EX. Go ahead and look up how much that bad boy costs.) Also out of all the amps and cabs I own (and have owned) my absolute favorite tone is from my Peavey Max 208 combo. I mention this stuff not just to point out that cheap gear can get the job done, but also because no one on the Interwebz would've recommended that I get a Peavey Max 208 or the absolute cheapest offering from Ibanez. Recommendations from others can only get you so far, unfortunately. (In fact I used to have a Fender Rumble combo, which will be recommended left and right on Talkbass, and I absolutely hated it. My experiences with other Rumbles have not changed my mind.)

I'd say you should start off with your objective requirements like how loud you need to be, what size/weight you want your cab/amp to be, etc. Use that to narrow things down and then start to try to figure out what comes closest to your subjective requirements. At the end of the day, though, those of us who can't go demo a wide range of gear need to accept that we'll either (1) be spending a bunch of money on trial and error, or (2) taking our best shot with buying once and making the most of what we get.

——————————
I’m sorry I forgot to mention in my other response-I’m 100% with you on disliking the Fender Rumble as well…

I know a lot of people in the main forums would disagree with me, but this about sums them up IMO:

Thanks! \m/

 

[lucas303]

I hadn’t really thought of this until just now, but if I like the sound of the Darkglass better I suppose that answers my own question even if it doesn’t “usually” go with a Stoner Metal sound??? <—-[Lol-Maybe???]

As has been previously mentioned...

 

[Andysalt01]

——————————————-
Just curious, but what kind of bass is the soap bar style one on the far right???…

That’s a REALLY nice looking instrument…

Thanks! \m/

It's a Spector Euro LX5 with Emgs. Matte blue finish. Yeah plays wonderfully and sounds great.

 

[Andysalt01]

Thanks man!!!!
Yeah, I really could try to set the pedals better before entering the studio if I had more time.
But our band just practiced the riffs and playing so much the pedal work happens basically when recording.

We just set the levels and it usually sounds the way we want, but I went alot of clean tube amp for this one with the drive on full. I think Im just worrying too much on all the variables.

Honestly I don't think you can go wrong with that set up. If you're playing a barefaced you might want to mic the left and right array of speakers as the left is full range and the right is low passed.
Hope it goes well

 

[Sapatown]

I found if I lay back on the drive setting on the Matamp GT200, and take away alittle Depth setting. It handled the fuzz/od pedals really well.

For the songs I only want to use the head with no pedals, I go full drive/depth aswell. Its an MK1 so it have a really good breaking up clean sound, that sounds alittle distorted anyway.

Its super exciting to try this rig for the first time.
Tubes rock for sure! I dont miss that headroom from SS amps.

 

[kleinenenten]

Per the current amp/pedal/Darkglass/whatever conversation, here's my take.

I used to have a good deal of boutique gear. I'd estimate about half of my sizable (15ish pedals at any given point) were boutique, especially the dirt section. In the past two years, however, I've greatly downsized those pedals and have found mass-produced alternatives that are cheaper and sound better to me. Here are some specific examples:

The DG B3K is my longest-serving pedal to date, serving me nearly a decade on my board. About a year ago, I removed it from the board. I found I preferred the Ibanez PD7 for those same tones (thrash/death metal) because it kept my low end cleaner and was easier to dial in. I had 3 B3Ks at one point, but they're all gone now. For the price of one used B3K, I bought my two PD7s, with a little change. I prefer that tone. I also tried the mother of all B3Ks, the B7KU. It was the quickest flip I've ever had. Couldn't stand the high end fizz, and I couldn't dial it out. It was gone within a week.

In regards to doomy tones, I also briefly tried the DG VMT for "tube dirt". I found it pretty good, and didn't have any sort of specific gripe with it that I can remember, but it didn't beat out my Way Huge Pork Loin (modded ala JohnK). So depending if you consider a single cap swap "boutique", this may or may not apply. Regardless, the Pork Loin is the absolute best distortion pedal I've ever had. It simply works in pretty much any situation. It's my desert island dirt.

Doom fuzz tones, I have yet to find anything better than my Pharaoh Supreme, though it is incredibly close between that and my Swollen Pickle. I could be totally happy with my Swollen Pickle, but seeing as I have two boards, have decided to keep both fuzzes. They are both finicky, and require lots of tweaking, but I feel that I could get any fuzz tone I need from either given enough time.

My HM-2 is still boutique - Dunwich DIY HM-2. I'd love another! The runner up for that however, is mass-produced. Arion Metal Master. Definitely different, but it's the best bass HM-2 on a budget, and does beat out my Throat Locust on bass as well for straight up HM-2. It's not versatile, so if you want something in the HM-2 family but different, I'd go for the Throat Locust, but I digress.

My bass/amps aren't boutique either, if that matters. Typically, standard Ibanez Soundgear basses (though I plan on upgrading the pickups/pre on one that has a persistent hum) and GK amps and cabs. Nothing "cheap", but solid. I did try the DG MT900 in a store once. While I liked it, and it sounded good, it didn't do anything I couldn't do with my pedals. I found that I preferred the GK. The DG amp was great for DG tones, but I had to use the EQ to shape the onboard dirt, and then my other dirt didn't sound right (I had brought some of my pedals to test out the head). If you only need that dirt tone, it would be a great amp. I like numerous tones.

I feel that with all of my gear, I can play any genre. Well, I have the effects to play any genre... Skill is something else entirely.

 

[Andysalt01]

I found if I lay back on the drive setting on the Matamp GT200, and take away alittle Depth setting. It handled the fuzz/od pedals really well.

For the songs I only want to use the head with no pedals, I go full drive/depth aswell. Its an MK1 so it have a really good breaking up clean sound, that sounds alittle distorted anyway.

Its super exciting to try this rig for the first time.
Tubes rock for sure! I dont miss that headroom from SS amps.

I used to own a mk1. Got a gt150 inbound at the moment as it's akin to the mk1. Sounds like you're all over it. Hope you have a good session.

 

[Sapatown]

I used to own a mk1. Got a gt150 inbound at the moment as it's akin to the mk1. Sounds like you're all over it. Hope you have a good session.

Thanks man! I love Matamp stuff. Also have thE GT2.

Do you guys crank the volume to 10 when recording? Knowing the amp can handle it.

The cab of mine can take 1600watts.
But the amp is 200w.

I have it at 9 volume wise when recording now..
Cause im not so experienced with them.

I tjink it get the tube sound going! Just didt go to 10, cause Im afraid of the sheer insane level of volume haha

 

[br1qbat]

——————————
I’m sorry I forgot to mention in my other response-I’m 100% with you on disliking the Fender Rumble as well…

I know a lot of people in the main forums would disagree with me, but this about sums them up IMO:

View attachment 4424226

Thanks! \m/

The rumble is not bad per se. It's just soooo blah to me.

 

[br1qbat]

First time on stage in a year. 20min set flew by. Felt bloody marvelous though.