I think if we're not the ones being made to look like fools, most of us don't care how much you drink.
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Stop drinking
- Thread starter SpanishDave
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I think if we're not the ones being made to look like fools, most of us don't care how much you "_______".
*fixed
I think if we're not the ones being made to look like fools, most of us don't care how much you "__________".
Even better!
Okay, listen. I'm going to try to make this a more productive conversation instead of what others are perceiving as my making others "look like fools." I've read that the AA disease model only has a 3% success rate. The old saying goes that when you find yourself in a hole, the first step is to stop digging. Does anyone know any other alternatives with higher success rates?
Haha. Seriously, though. AA's disease model is the dominant program but the success rates don't jibe with it's popularity. I've heard of Moderation Management behavior base model which attempts to teach people to have a healthy relationship with alcohol without causing the abstinence cravings that lead to AA's relapses. I don't know what their success rates are though.
I nearly mentioned the 3% success rate earlier. I'll address it now.
The 3% number was mentioned in AA meetings a number of times while I attended them. Factors that contribute to the low success rate include but aren't limited to:
1) People that have to attend meetings as part of a court-ordered treatment program
2) People that attend for someone else (spouse, parent, significant other, etc)
3) People that aren't willing to try ANYTHING and everything to stop
4) People that use AA as a social hangout because it isn't a bar, then hookup and go to the bar
5) People can't get over the fact they have to quit weed to stay in accordance with AA principles
6) Etc, etc.
Yes, any examples I list here are not scientific and are just my opinion but in my experience, the success rate of those who DO NOT attend AA for the above reasons is closer to 100%. I was as hopeless as they come and if I relayed exactly how much I drank and how deep my alcoholism was, you'd either think I was exaggerating or thankful that I stopped.
Just passed 10 years without a drink
Almost that long since I last pooped my pants
About court ordered AA attendance…
97% of failures can be attributed to that. Most people ordered to go have no desire to stop.
97% of failures can be attributed to that. Most people ordered to go have no desire to stop.
Almost that long since I last pooped my pants
Hey, just don't poop in the ocean, okay? It appears that a few human turds can really screw things up!
But seriously, congratulations on your success!
I nearly mentioned the 3% success rate earlier. I'll address it now.
The 3% number was mentioned in AA meetings a number of times while I attended them. Factors that contribute to the low success rate include but aren't limited to:
1) People that have to attend meetings as part of a court-ordered treatment program
2) People that attend for someone else (spouse, parent, significant other, etc)
3) People that aren't willing to try ANYTHING and everything to stop
4) People that use AA as a social hangout because it isn't a bar, then hookup and go to the bar
5) People can't get over the fact they have to quit weed to stay in accordance with AA principles
6) Etc, etc.
Yes, any examples I list here are not scientific and are just my opinion but in my experience, the success rate of those who DO NOT attend AA for the above reasons is closer to 100%. I was as hopeless as they come and if I relayed exactly how much I drank and how deep my alcoholism was, you'd either think I was exaggerating or thankful that I stopped.
Just passed 10 years without a drink
Almost that long since I last pooped my pants
Well that's sort of the problem I have with AA's rational that the program "Works if you Work it." It's a bit of a moving goal line and allows them to exclude anyone they choose from their statistics. IMO that's taking credit for the success without owning up to the failures. And it again corresponds to the study that found that 31% of doctors thought that alcoholism is a personal weakness rather than a disease.
But I want to be clear about one thing. I admire your commitment and hard work to improve your life. That takes grit. I don't want anyone to get me wrong that I'm trying to make anyone out to be a fool. I'm sure that your success has everything to do with your strength of character and nothing I say should take away from that.
As someone with 28 years of sobriety I agree 100% with this. I was court-ordered three times and was only there because I had to. Just got my slip signed to show I was there and off to the bar I went. It wasn't until I decided I wanted to quit that it worked.I nearly mentioned the 3% success rate earlier. I'll address it now.
The 3% number was mentioned in AA meetings a number of times while I attended them. Factors that contribute to the low success rate include but aren't limited to:
1) People that have to attend meetings as part of a court-ordered treatment program
2) People that attend for someone else (spouse, parent, significant other, etc)
3) People that aren't willing to try ANYTHING and everything to stop
4) People that use AA as a social hangout because it isn't a bar, then hookup and go to the bar
5) People can't get over the fact they have to quit weed to stay in accordance with AA principles
6) Etc, etc.
Yes, any examples I list here are not scientific and are just my opinion but in my experience, the success rate of those who DO NOT attend AA for the above reasons is closer to 100%. I was as hopeless as they come and if I relayed exactly how much I drank and how deep my alcoholism was, you'd either think I was exaggerating or thankful that I stopped.
Just passed 10 years without a drink
Almost that long since I last pooped my pants
I want to add one more reason to your list. You touched on it in one of your other posts.
7) People that can not accept that they need to find their higher power.
As soon as I figured that out I went to 2-3 more meetings and quit AA.
I haven't had a drink sense.
A lot of people really have a hard time with the G word. I think it's important to note that 'God' and a 'Higher Power' aren't necessarily the same thing. If you believe in God, then no problem. But a higher power could be Mother Earth, the sun, the collective power of the room, or somebody who has a lot of clean time that inspires you and you could learn from. I personally don't have a problem admitting that a room full of people seeking help for their problem(s) is a much greater power than me trying to figure it out by myself. I also think a lot of people are looking for fault with the program, and use the mention of the G word in AA/NA as an excuse to bail out.
I dated someone that got a DWI and had to go to AA. I offered to go to a meeting with her because she didn't want to go. On the way home she said, "I'm nothing like those people." I turned to her and said, "You ARE those people." Of couse it didn't work out so I bailed. As a reformed drunk I've got no time for people that don't want to help themselves. They don't need my help to self destruct, they do fine all on their own.
Right there with you, friend. Tell me if this sounds familiar: you can have one or two, but any more than that and the train leaves the station and all bets are off. Might turn into a nasty all-nighter that takes days to recover from. Been there.
Oh, sure it does. Except, after I have that one, it's only a matter of time before it turns into a hundred. Not necessarily that day, but it will snowball until disaster. It just will, and that one is the one that starts the ball rolling. It happens like that every time, and for me the best thing is to simply avoid that "one" at all costs, because that first one is the worst one of all.
Are you saying that one is too many and a thousand never enough? Damn, I hate those slogans ... mostly cuz they ring true
Exactly. And in my case, it really is true.Are you saying that one is too many and a thousand never enough? Damn, I hate those slogans ... mostly cuz they ring true
Having one or one hundred, the number you drink is not the real issue. The real issue is if alcohol is a problem in your life. Fighting with wifey over drinking, missing work because of drinking, money problems because you drank up the house note money, driving drunk, that kind of crap. Problem drinkers are not always the classic "gotta have it when I wake up and throughout the day to keep the shakes and DT's at bay" type drinker.
You have binge drinkers (guilty) who don't drink all the time, but when they start it's katie bar the door until they drink themselves into a stupor, blackout, or pass out. The idea of having a few and going home never crosses their mind after the first one.
There are also those who maintain a low level of intoxication constantly. They are the people you know who always have a beer/drink but you've never see them drunk. Actually, the reality is you've never seen them sober.
Individual tolerance and consumption levels are really not the metric used to decide if drinking is a problem. Problems associated with drinking is the one true defining characteristic of problem drinking.
Oh and one last thing, not all problem drinkers are alcoholics, but all alcoholics are problem drinkers. Problem drinkers are usually reacting to unusually stressful events and once the stressor is removed so is the problem drinking. Real alcoholics however, not the same at all. They may be sober for a long time, but all it takes is one drink to put them right back on the downbound train.
You have binge drinkers (guilty) who don't drink all the time, but when they start it's katie bar the door until they drink themselves into a stupor, blackout, or pass out. The idea of having a few and going home never crosses their mind after the first one.
There are also those who maintain a low level of intoxication constantly. They are the people you know who always have a beer/drink but you've never see them drunk. Actually, the reality is you've never seen them sober.
Individual tolerance and consumption levels are really not the metric used to decide if drinking is a problem. Problems associated with drinking is the one true defining characteristic of problem drinking.
Oh and one last thing, not all problem drinkers are alcoholics, but all alcoholics are problem drinkers. Problem drinkers are usually reacting to unusually stressful events and once the stressor is removed so is the problem drinking. Real alcoholics however, not the same at all. They may be sober for a long time, but all it takes is one drink to put them right back on the downbound train.
