Straight Eighth Note Consistent Volume

[Groove Master]

Even with a lot of practice you'll never achieve a perfect balance between the 2 fingers.

There is only one way of getting the right balance between your 8th's notes and it is the ONE finger approach. Play everything with the index.

Even balance guaranteed

 

[Brad Johnson]

Probably not as balanced as the no finger approach.


Two fingers can be very even... if you work at it.

 

[Groove Master]

Probably not as balanced as the no finger approach.


Two fingers can be very even... if you work at it.

Sincerely Brad, I spent my whole career and still do as a studio musician and the one-finger approach is the only way to get those even 8th's notes well-balanced and I'm a freak on technique and alternate fingers.

 

[SoVeryTired]

I think I'm getting better at the consistency although it used to bug me. I think the two things that have helped me most are turning up the volume and playing lighter, and practicing playing with just my 'quieter' finger. I found that my middle finger was producing a softer sound whereas my index finger gave more attack, and this was mainly down to my index finger having harder skin from more playing time. I now try and use my middle finger a lot more for single-finger parts to toughen it up.

 

[MostlyBass]

The inability to achieve perfection should not preclude the strive for excellence. Keep practicing.

 

[mbeall]

The inability to achieve perfection should not preclude the strive for excellence. Keep practicing.

^^^ +1

 

[Brad Johnson]

Sincerely Brad, I spent my whole career and still do as a studio musician and the one-finger approach is the only way to get those even 8th's notes well-balanced and I'm a freak on technique and alternate fingers.

Cool... I do it with one or two. Some even do it with three or four. Seriously.

 

[TheoFly]

You could try the Bryan Beller approach and use your index finger and ring finger, saving your middle finger for long cross string plucks. Then the two fingers that alternate to pluck 8th notes would be more the same size and weight.

Or ... you could just practice more as has been mentioned.

 

[agreatheight]

While I am not telling you to not strive to be the best you can be, I am saying that a reality check may be in order. Often, what sounds flawless in the mix sounds uneven and messy solo'd.

Examples:

Here is John Myung playing some fast fingerstyle 16ths. Gloriously uneven.


They all sound great in the mix, though, don't they?

Point is, don't make yourself feel too bad listening to yourself against a click with nothing else.

 

[JimmyM]

To me the Michael Anthony van halen drumming 8's is boring, just like a perfectly manicured lawn. You're a living breathing person not a machine. You're supposed to be adding some creativity. Want strait 8's? Have a keyboard player or a chimp mash on a synth. How about listening to the snare or kick or rhythm guitar and matching that? Okay, gotta have that sound angle your neck and fingers so they're the same distance from the strings and play ahead or behind the pickups. Or if you don't care about bass at all do the unthinkable and borrow a pick from the guitar player...

The difference is someone who's worked at it can choose between playing evenly or with what you call "creativity." Someone who hasn't worked at it can only do one of those things.

 

[Pacman]

The difference is someone who's worked at it can choose between playing evenly or with what you call "creativity." Someone who hasn't worked at it can only do one of those things.

This. It's pretyy easy to spot who is who, too.

 

[TheoFly]

To me the Michael Anthony van halen drumming 8's is boring, just like a perfectly manicured lawn.

You know ... he might have just been playing the line the boss told him to play.

Except I have heard him "solo" .....

I have probably heard more songs where I thought the bass player should have been serving the song and not his ego than the other way around. As someone else said, you have to be *able* to play eighths when the song calls for them.

 

[zortation]

Even with a lot of practice you'll never achieve a perfect balance between the 2 fingers.

There is only one way of getting the right balance between your 8th's notes and it is the ONE finger approach. Play everything with the index.

Even balance guaranteed

Bingo.

Reminds me of the story about NASA trying to create a pen that would write in zero gravity when the Russians just used a pencil.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

While I am not telling you to not strive to be the best you can be, I am saying that a reality check may be in order. Often, what sounds flawless in the mix sounds uneven and messy solo'd.

Examples:

Here is John Myung playing some fast fingerstyle 16ths. Gloriously uneven.


They all sound great in the mix, though, don't they?

Point is, don't make yourself feel too bad listening to yourself against a click with nothing else.

Are you 100% sure that those tracks are really played by the real bass player or are they version for video game or some d****e-bag doing a cover saying it is the real thing ?

 

[Pacman]

Are you 100% sure that those tracks are really played by the real bass player or are they version for video game or some d****e-bag doing a cover saying it is the real thing ?

The Dream Theater one is pretty obviously not the original track.

 

[thewildest]

Do a lot of people have this trouble? How did you work on overcoming it? Right now all I can think to do is keep trying and recording myself to see how I sound.

I assume you are using 2 fingers, I had a similar issue trying to play with 3 (index, middle, ring), specially as I don't anchor my thumb, I use it too. I figured that i had a weaker finger (my ring finger was the trouble) so I exercise the muscles by playing exercises with my hand as close to the bridge as possible, where the stringsnaren at their maximum tension. This not only clearly pointed out volume differences (and helped correct the playing at every iteration) but also helped my hand be evenly stronger. At first it is a littlembit of a pain, but it gives results pretty quickly.

I hope it helps, regards.

 

[lowfreq33]

The Dream Theater one is pretty obviously not the original track.

Sounds exactly like the original track to me. He switched to MM style pickups for that album, which to me always seemed to emphasize click and slop. It's just that in the mix the slop gets covered up.

 

[oniman7]

The Dream Theater one is pretty obviously not the original track.

The sound is consistent with everything else I've heard from him, especially his other soloed tracks. I remember thinking the same about the others, but it has the same general tone as a lot of his other, and a lot of the same clickiness.

But he might be trying to do it in this case, since it gets much clickier after the intro solo.

For reference:


His playing is mildly inconsistent, but not terrible. You can tell a difference between which fingers or the strength he hits the string with sometimes. Other times it's near flawless. That makes me think they did it on purpose.

The real surprise for me is that they leave it like that and it sounds so good on the record itself.

 

[Groove Master]

Bingo.

Reminds me of the story about NASA trying to create a pen that would write in zero gravity when the Russians just used a pencil.

LOL

Good one

 

[bigfatbass]

Wow. I don't even know where to start with that kind of arrogance/ignorance.

To me the Michael Anthony van halen drumming 8's is boring, just like a perfectly manicured lawn. You're a living breathing person not a machine. You're supposed to be adding some creativity. Want strait 8's? Have a keyboard player or a chimp mash on a synth. How about listening to the snare or kick or rhythm guitar and matching that? Okay, gotta have that sound angle your neck and fingers so they're the same distance from the strings and play ahead or behind the pickups. Or if you don't care about bass at all do the unthinkable and borrow a pick from the guitar player...

The attitude is ridiculous, and sounds very much like it's coming from somebody who can't do it. Straight, solid, evenly toned eighths are HARD, and are an essential part of the groove in all kinds of music. I spent decades to get where I am now, and for good reason. My tone and consistency are BIG reasons why I work so much. The more any studio has to fudge/compress/ride your part, the less likely you will ever get called back.

Mock Michael all you want. I'd lay cold hard cash you can't play his parts without a lot of shedding. It may just be one note, but the art is putting it in the right places. Ask Bill Laswell or Bob Babbitt, because they will both talk your ear off on the topic.

Those that can, do. Those that can't, hate.

Yeah, you can replace Rocco or Skeets with a "chimp mashing on a synth".

When I taught at the National Guitar Workshop, I was lucky enough to get to hang with Manring for a few days. You know what he does for an entire day of one of his seminars? Makes them play with a metronome going so slow you think he turned it off, and makes the entire class play one note, dead on beat. He then walks around the room and listens to each student, telling them if they are early/late/weak/strong etc. Easily one of the single best lessons I've ever learned about what it means to actually PLAY my instrument, and not just crank notes out of it.

So there. Now I'VE talked your ear off about it, lol.




For the OP, it's already been said. Set that metronome loud and slow, and try to make each note the exact same weight and duration. I wouldn't start raising the click rate for at least a week or two. Bore the living snot out of yourself with it before you start speeding up. Since you are essentially starting from scratch, why not go for the 3 finger 8ths a la Entwistle or Steve Harris? That would REALLY add something to your arsenal!