Streamliner by Bugera?

[HaphAsSard]

Cool, thx!

I'm still struggling a bit, found one used in Germany for 480.-€.
Still...used, no warranty.

Better deal for sure than the one I linked to.

My BDI-21, made from plastics...doesn't quite sound like a Sansamp but comes close enough.
I mean...33€ new compared to an Tech21 for like 200+€?
Got it for 3 years now, didn't fail a single time yet.

I'm not crazy about mine in the context I'm playing now, but yep, it soldiers on.

And as much as I understand that you US guys want to support US brands I am willing to support a German brand.

Absolutely, I understand. (Well, I don't always go out of my way to buy Italian because I'm a cheap bastard, and broke...) Mine was just a heads-up, not meant to deflect attention from the new Bugeras - just in case you wanted the GB more anyway.

Wouldn't this be more accurately deemed "German reverse engineering"?

lOl

 

[TheRealKong]

Wouldn't this be more accurately deemed "German reverse engineering"?

Not because I am from Germany, too, but....

Has or had GenzBenz the all alone right to built a class-D-poweramp with a Baxandall tone stack? I don't think so. the so-so similar looks do come from building an amp for a customer, who is used to find the tone-knobs and other stuff in the common places.

Lets talk about the BVV 3000. It may look like a´n Ampeg, but what should they have done? Fixing some wheels under the amp? Any "big block" - all-tube amp does look quite similar, all the knobs are at the nearly same places - except on Orange Amps, and I still see people complain about this.

All-Tube-Amp layout is some decades old, and lots of brands do exist. All of them built their own amp, all with circuits that are similar to the circuits of other brands - just because this is logical.

Same with Class-D - Amps. The whole world does use the same powersection, okay, nearly all brands do. So there are just some differences in the Preamp and the, lets call 'em, "inner techniques", so as the 3DPM-circuit invented by GenzBenz. I can't see anywhere that Behringer or Bugera did copy this.

OK, its an amp, that does look like a Streamliner, a bit. Lets see, if it can do for a bassman, what a Streamliner is able to do.

Than we can open the amp and talk again about "reverse engineering".

Don't take me too serious. I am just laughing a bit like "German engineers invented cars, the so called "Otto-Motor", not to forget Mr. Wankel or Rudolf Diesel. So all the streets in the USA are filled with "reverse engineered" cars. Are they?

 

[silky smoove]

Has or had GenzBenz the all alone right to built a class-D-poweramp with a Baxandall tone stack? I don't think so. the so-so similar looks do come from building an amp for a customer, who is used to find the tone-knobs and other stuff in the common places.

No one is asserting that Genz had the sole right to a class D amp and a Baxandall tone stack. That's preposterous. What's also preposterous is that the looks are "so-so similar."

As to the rest of your ramblings about cars, all-tube amps, etc. ...I don't even know where to begin.

 

[seamonkey]

Read post #96 from Behringer rep

"“The simple answer is that we have for many years considered our products to be followers of market trends and have designed them accordingly. Our product strategy has been to introduce products into categories where there is proven market demand and win based on our value proposition. That strategy has spawned many products whose visual appearance “mimics” that of the market leaders in many segments."

I wish Bugera had copied a more modern design like a TCE, something with presets, but that doesn't seem to be their bass market. Too bad as the X32 is totally awesome.

 

[agedhorse]

No one is asserting that Genz had the sole right to a class D amp and a Baxandall tone stack. That's preposterous. What's also preposterous is that the looks are "so-so similar."

As to the rest of your ramblings about cars, all-tube amps, etc. ...I don't even know where to begin.

Thank you guys. Our design team took a great amount of time and effort (in addition to cost) to create a really unique look and feel to the Streamliner. At this point, it's clearly no longer unique. Those of you who saw their display at NAMM easily recognized how incredibly similar looking their product is to the Streamliner (on the outside at least). The back panel was almost identical, down to the exact text and font and layout used.

So, does this sort of practice take anything away from the industry? While some of you may not appreciate how much effort goes into creating a really new product, it does indeed take away from those (several of us personally) leading the cutting edge development. The question I have to ask is if this is validation or violation?

 

[Chef]

The question I have to ask is if this is validation or violation?

Well..I guess that would depend who you're asking:
-a fan
-a critic
-a lawyer; or; several lawyers, as they'd probably all have different opinions.

This sort of thing happens across many industries anymore.

 

[Lindex]

Wouldn't this be more accurately deemed "German reverse engineering"?

Hehehe...I see you got the point...

 

[Lindex]

Thank you guys. Our design team took a great amount of time and effort (in addition to cost) to create a really unique look and feel to the Streamliner. At this point, it's clearly no longer unique. Those of you who saw their display at NAMM easily recognized how incredibly similar looking their product is to the Streamliner (on the outside at least). The back panel was almost identical, down to the exact text and font and layout used.

You are absolutely right and I would also prefer Behringer go with thier own design, especially as I buy their stuff because of the price/performance ratio and not for the looks.
But as Uli Behringer stated, seems that many people want to have a lookalike and can't (or don't want to) afford the original.

Honestly speaking I personally find the SVT extremely ugly - in this case even like the clone a slight bit more - but I would never have bought it just because it mimics the Ampeg.

For me it was the opportunity to try an all tube amp again after decades, my last one was a SoundCity 120 that has died over 25 years ago.
I was absoultely not sure if I would be going to be happy with it, so I didn't want to spend 2K+ € on it.
666 € and full auto biasing sounded perfect to me.
300W of tube sound and never again having to deal with paired tubes, opening the amp, connect a meter to set the bias or even spend huge amounts of money at my local amp tech (a kind of person that got very rare over the last decades).

Similar for the Streamliner, in this case I really like the design but still wouldn't buy the Bugera just because it looks almost 100% the same.
The main reason why I don't already have one is that my main cabs are all 4 Ohms and so I can always only use one at a time.
I've tried the ShuttleMAX 12.2 and the GBE1200 for that reason which are great amps, but way too overcrouded with options for my personal taste.
That's something that already gets on my nerves with my SWR Marcus Miller Preamp.
Sounds awesome but most times I have the tone control section disabled and use the "Aural Enhancer" contour knob only and maybe a bit of the compressor.
So in this case for me, if the Streamline would be 2 Ohm capable or had two 4 Ohm poweramp sections, would be the perfect light weight amp.
With not perfectly fitting my needs the STM-900 is just too expensive.

That's where the Bugera became an interesting option.
But now, with an STM for 480.- used I'm seriously struggling...

 

[IPYF]

So, does this sort of practice take anything away from the industry? While some of you may not appreciate how much effort goes into creating a really new product, it does indeed take away from those (several of us personally) leading the cutting edge development. The question I have to ask is if this is validation or violation?

I'd be leaning towards it being an homage man, but you could look at it either way. Behringer have always borrowed their look from other bass brands, and their tone has always been completely foreign to the look of the shell.

Their BX is a MAG clone (albeit, quite a good one). They had that stupid looking SVT clone thing. Neither sounded anything like the amp they were aping.

Since they're not in the same ballpark in terms of price or quality, is it fair to suggest that your markets don't overlap for the discerning customer?

I just wonder though if Fender would consider suing? I mean they used to sue anyone who used their headstock shape on a quality instrument (Cole Clark got their butt kicked at least once) so why not pants Behringer for pinching your look?

 

[Lindex]

They had that stupid looking SVT clone thing. Neither sounded anything like the amp they were aping.

Just a short question: have you ever heard it yourself? Compared to an SVT driving the same box? Or just heard of someone who read that the writer knows one, who...?

I don't say it sounds exactly like an SVT but I don't think it's that far off.
And how should it - they share the same circuitry design invented in the early mids of last century.
What might easily set them apart is build quality, which will probably be true for the older US made SVTs.
For those never ones built in Vietnam I even doubt that...from what I hear (from people who have heard of a person who knows the neighbor of an owner... ) they had "Behringerish" fail rates at least in the first production runs.

Didn't Ampeg return to produce certain models in the US for that reason...?
Not sure, I'm not really following their product news announcements...

 

[seamonkey]

Bugera heads won't be out until, what? end of 2016, or 2017?
GB streamliner will be long out of production by then. Fender had the option and passed.

There may be a few other brands that have similar look by then.
IMHO - front panel looks - not so good. Rear panel layout looks good.
I also hope Bugera takes a step back and comes with a better look.

 

[Jeff Genzler]

I also share Andy's comments.

Similar appearance is one thing but when you use the same functionality/interface, mid EQ points, Active mid EQ network, etc---Violated or validated is the question?

Its all about confusion in the market place.

Interesting times....

 

[drea2304]

Well said.

 

[nshuman]

But put a Valve Train badge on it and everyone is ok with it...

 

[Willy Franklin]

In other news.... My Bugera Veyron T was delivered yesterday.... Using it to power a Greenboy F112, you know, strictly for science purposes... Anyone have any questions??

 

[nshuman]

In other news.... My Bugera Veyron T was delivered yesterday.... Using it to power a Greenboy F112, you know, strictly for science purposes... Anyone have any questions??

How does it sound?

 

[Willy Franklin]

How does it sound?

Well, my first gig with it is this evening, so I'll know better then... BUT!!!! Since you asked.....

First. a little about me, so you know where I'm coming from: My personal taste (for when I'm not doing a session for someone who want's a particular sound) is clean, bright, round, with lots of booty... My personal favorite sound is GK heads through SWR or Eden 2x10 or 4x10 cabinets...

What drew me to the Bugera was the output power to go along with my power hungry Greenboy F112 cabinet, and the fact that people were comparing it to the Streamliner 900... Being an Ed Friedland fanboy, I had to give it a shot...

Last night, I tried it with my F112 and a SWR Goliath Jr. 2x10... I was able to dial up a tone I was happy with pretty quickly, although, I have to say that with GK, I'm happy with the tone controls set to 12:00, but had to mess with the Veyron. (but I guess the GK 12 o'clock position isn't exactly a flat response either). I played my P-Bass with flats, my Carvin B-50 funk machine, and my Yamaha BB425x (a P/J workhorse) and was pleasantly surprised with each of them...

The response was fast, the compression was nice when set to about 9:00, (past that it was real noticeable to me), the tone controls worked well, and were voiced good to my ear, and it got LOUD!! I'm hoping that this can replace my BBE BMAX-T/Carvin DCM2000 rack setup to power the F112. (Did I mention that I'm an Ed Friedland fanboy??)

I'll know better after tonights gig...

 

[Willy Franklin]

Also... I hadn't looked at a Streamliner 900 before today and WOW!! I'm absolutely shocked on how similar the designs are. My day-gig is as a Hardware Engineer, and I totally get where Mr. Genzler and "agedHorse" are coming from. Personally, I think it's total validation of your design!! ...and what's under the hood matters a great deal... If you want me to take it apart and take pictures, I'd be happy to...

 

[Munjibunga]

Well..I guess that would depend who you're asking:
-a fan
-a critic
-a lawyer; or; several lawyers, as they'd probably all have different opinions.

This sort of thing happens across many industries anymore.

Oh. Well OK then.

 

[calypsocoral302]

I know this is an old thread, but we bass players enjoy a lot of uniquity (I refuse to say "uniqueness", even if Webster says its right), because bass is hard to amplify, and there are precious few bass amps that achieved "iconic" status, save the B15 and SVT. But our 6-string cousins have a market flooded with copies. How many guitar amp builders have ripped off (with few slight modifications) the Fender Deluxe Reverb? The Marshall Plexi? The Vox AC series? Even Mesa started out with Fender as a starting point, at least. Hiwatt, Reeves, and Sound City are three brands of a similar circuit, with different owners! Now the Valco circuits are coming back into fashion, and amp builders are rushing to mimic those (for fairness, Dirty Girl Amplification was doing a modded Valco circuit before it was "cool").

Andy and Jeff are right to be taken aback a bit, but I figured this was coming for a while now-- and I'm glad it was one of their designs someone deemed worth mimicking.

That being said, the Veyron has been on my "short list" for a while now, and I'd love to hear more from Willy about how it performs on his gigs!