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Streamliner by Bugera?

Your forgetting one very important factor here and that is the fact the China doesn't recognize US Patent laws. In other words, they don't give cr*p if their companies rip of US products, or not. From what I saw at NAMM this amp is a total rip off of the Streamliner with the TC handle built in. The thing I don't get is Behringer actually has some very talented engineers at their disposal. They are perfectly capable of designing their own products, yet choose the business model of copying and undercutting the price as their normal way of doing business. Fact is that Chinese companies just look at this as a totally acceptable way of doing business and they don't give it a second thought, yet we continue to send our products overseas for them to make. Sorry to rant here, but this stuff hits close to home for me and drives me nuts.


I highly doubt they would use an IcePower module. They would just copy one and build their own version of it.

In just a slightly different view from someone who practices Intellectual Property law, the Chinese recognize US Patent Law as well as those of other Countries, but they will try to circumvent them whenever possible.

Part of the problem with US Intellectual Property rights is that you cannot enforce a US Patent against them in China, any more than you can enforce US criminal or corporate law against Chinese citizens or corporations in China.

To prevent Chinese companies from infringing your patent or other rights in China, you MUST perfect those rights with a Chinese patent. After all, you wouldn't want someone coming into US federal court with Chinese patent in hand, expecting us to enforce a Patent we didn't grant on ourselves, would we?

Often US Patent holders do not obtain foreign patents at all, for many reasons, including the massive expense and hassle, as well as the realization that enforcement of those patents would be expensive and highly problematic logistically.

So, it is typically only large and well-heeled corporations with huge IP budgets that do so. What that means is, any foreign country in which you do not hold domestic patents for your IP are free to use it as they wish EXCEPT permitting those products to then be imported into and sold within U S borders.

If that happens, you can take your patent to the FTC and request confiscation and a ban on further importation.

That being said, it should be understood that corporations all over the world, including those in the USA, will take advantage of the lack of IP protection whenever they can. And corporations all over the world will often roll the dice and dare those who have IP protection to prove it and enforce it.

The Chinese are certainly a bit less risk averse than some other countries. But one thing should be understood:

In any free market (and some not so free), what is not IP protected is in the public domain and free to all. What is protected by the laws of any jurisdiction are protected only to the extent that they are proven valid and are enforced (or to the extent that you can convince an infringer of those rights that they are valid, that you will enforce them, and it's not worth it for the infinger risking the transaction costs to find out if that's true).

With respect to trade dress, this is not an easy case to make. The reason is that trade dress can ONLY protect the aesthetics of a product that people have come to identify with a company as the source of a product. To the extent that any of those aesthetics also serve even the slightest functional advantage, cannot be protected by a trade dress argument.

In the case of knob locations and order, or what functions to include, there are functional considerations that will not permit them to be protected. Otherwise, you are accomplishing the protection of function with trade dress for which you could never get a patent. Only utility patents can protect function.

I do nevertheless agree with Roger's frustration. But I find fault more with the governance of our own corporations then I do with China. Sometimes I find the prioritizing of share price over all other considerations to be an incredibly flawed way to do business. Jobs in our own country, as well as the protection of our own innovation is utterly sacrificed for that short term maximization of the company's stock price. But that's another issue.
 
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Behringer's customer service? I can speak from my own experience.

My drummer owns a 12 channel Behringer UB series mixer that we used live. Some of the channels quit working. It was out of warranty but he took it to an authorized repair center who said they "fixed" it. I do not remember what the repair cost. Two shows later the channels stopped working again. I contacted Behringer (mainly to make a complaint about the repair center) and they (Behringer) replaced the mixer with a new one, sent us a prepaid call tag to ship the old one back so they could check it out, AND gave us one of the FBQ 31 band equalizers to offset what was spent on the repair.

And

I have one of the DDX3216 digital mixers purchased from Musicians Friend on close out (purchased the MF extended 1 year repair or replace warranty) after 14 months I was mixing a recording session and the board lost power. I contacted MF who had me take it to a local repair center. The repair center could not fix it and was going to tell MF to give me a refund (since they obviously could not replace the mixer) Again I contacted Behringer and explained the situation. They sent me a call tag and had me ship the mixer to a center in Dallas who had it back to me in two weeks and it has been rock solid ever since.

Both times they did not need to do this, but they stepped up and helped me out.

Maybe I'm the exception.
 
Behringer's customer service? I can speak from my own experience.

My drummer owns a 12 channel Behringer UB series mixer that we used live. Some of the channels quit working. It was out of warranty but he took it to an authorized repair center who said they "fixed" it. I do not remember what the repair cost. Two shows later the channels stopped working again. I contacted Behringer (mainly to make a complaint about the repair center) and they (Behringer) replaced the mixer with a new one, sent us a prepaid call tag to ship the old one back so they could check it out, AND gave us one of the FBQ 31 band equalizers to offset what was spent on the repair.

And

I have one of the DDX3216 digital mixers purchased from Musicians Friend on close out (purchased the MF extended 1 year repair or replace warranty) after 14 months I was mixing a recording session and the board lost power. I contacted MF who had me take it to a local repair center. The repair center could not fix it and was going to tell MF to give me a refund (since they obviously could not replace the mixer) Again I contacted Behringer and explained the situation. They sent me a call tag and had me ship the mixer to a center in Dallas who had it back to me in two weeks and it has been rock solid ever since.

Both times they did not need to do this, but they stepped up and helped me out.

Maybe I'm the exception.

That's good work. I was fairly impressed when I asked about modding their amps and got acknowledgement in 6 minutes and a proper reply in a couple of hours, rather than the 'boohoo, warranty, no user serviceable parts' I get sometimes.
 
That's good work. I was fairly impressed when I asked about modding their amps and got acknowledgement in 6 minutes and a proper reply in a couple of hours, rather than the 'boohoo, warranty, no user serviceable parts' I get sometimes.

+1! I'm most impressed with the answers given by Sean here in this thread. Very useful and honest.

I have owned a few pieces of equipment by both Behringer (mixers and compressors) and Bugera (NUKE Bass Amp). All of it has worked well for me and although obviously built to a price point, I feel it was built well enough to suit my semi pro needs.
 
I have owned a few pieces of equipment by both Behringer (mixers and compressors) and Bugera (NUKE Bass Amp). All of it has worked well for me and although obviously built to a price point, I feel it was built well enough to suit my semi pro needs.

I own 4 Behringer effect pedals, a Behringer XENYX mixer, Behringer Audio USB interface, and play a Bugera amp as my main amp. Not a single one of them has broken on me over the course of many years. Maybe I've just been lucky, but that's my experience.
 
Dear seamonkey,
I wanted to get back to you in regards to the warranty point you requested clarification on. It is correct that the TURBOSOUND drivers within BUGERA cabs are covered for 1 year, whereas other components of the cabinet are covered for 3 years as described in the Warranty Policy you quoted - so long as the product is registered within 90 days of purchase, of course.

As far as specifications are concerned, what are you looking for specifically? We include spec sheets with all product manuals, which will be available as we get closer to shipping.


Thank you,
Sean Fairchild
Specialist, Channel Marketing Prosumer Division
MUSIC Group
BUGERA

Thanks for the information. This is actually on par with other manufacturers. And it's clear in the warranty description.

Is there additional information on the "High-voltage MOSFET preamplifier"?
Does this mean just higher than normally used in MOSFET pre-amps, or are we talking several hundred volts? If so there must be some up-scaling of supporting circuitry to handle the high voltage? This could be an interesting spin on pre-amps.
 
But I find fault more with the governance of our own corporations then I do with China. Sometimes I find the prioritizing of share price over all other considerations to be an incredibly flawed way to do business. Jobs in our own country, as well as the protection of our own innovation is utterly sacrificed for that short term maximization of the company's stock price.

QFT and AMEN. This exactly.
 
Dear seamonkey,

I apologize for the long delay, but I have just received more information about the MosFet preamp in the BV1001M VEYRON M, which you had asked about.

This preamp in fact uses ultra-high impedance MosFet input stages that won’t dampen the input signal and which provide a very open and transparent sound. Furthermore, the input stages work at nearly 100 Volts which provides for a very large dynamic range without overloading the input stage, even at very high impulses.

And just a last word on the implementation of the Baxandall EQ in a passive form, I've been reassured that we do indeed use a passive network for the EQ itself, and that there are in fact passive and active versions of the utilized Baxandall network, as detailed here: Invalid Link Removed. But to dispel any confusion about the EQ, it is indeed passive, and is a Baxandall type. Thank you for your patience on this - I have to say, not being an engineer myself, I've been learning a lot!

I appreciate the kind words here. I'll do my best to get you the information you're looking for, should you have any additional questions.


Thank you,
Sean Fairchild
Specialist, Channel Marketing Prosumer Division
MUSIC Group
BUGERA
 
Dear seamonkey,

I apologize for the long delay, but I have just received more information about the MosFet preamp in the BV1001M VEYRON M, which you had asked about.

This preamp in fact uses ultra-high impedance MosFet input stages that won’t dampen the input signal and which provide a very open and transparent sound. Furthermore, the input stages work at nearly 100 Volts which provides for a very large dynamic range without overloading the input stage, even at very high impulses.


That's very good. For DB I've been using a Behringer ADI21 to match impedance of the piezo. I just turn the "blend" off and it works great. It's great to see Bugera raise the impedance right on the head. I've noticed some other brands also have this feature.

What they don't have is the high-votage (100v) MOSFET pre-amp.
This seems interesting. Maybe higher voltage allows for less serial gain stages and lowers the noise floor. Not really a question, but more of I can wait and see.

But please - don't take years to ship these models :)
 
Dear Muthafunk and seamonkey,

I don't yet have work on expected ship dates, but when I hear back on that I will certainly update the thread!


Thank you,
Sean Fairchild
Specialist, Channel Marketing Prosumer Division
MUSIC Group
BUGERA
 
Nice...I have been looking for a light weight amp with a little more power to replace my GK MB-200 micro head.
That little beast is quite impressive in terms of output power and sounds great, but sometimes when it gets a bit louder on stage you can run into its limits.
So I was thinking about getting a GB STM-900, but unfortunately there are none left to buy new all over Germany and the bordering EU countries.

As I already own a Bugera BVV3000 bass head that I've been more than happy with over the last 15 months (and also some other Behringer stuff in the band that never let us down) this might be a perfect fit to my plans.

Provided market introduction doesn't take as long again as for the BVV3000... :hmm:
 
So I was thinking about getting a GB STM-900, but unfortunately there are none left to buy new all over Germany and the bordering EU countries.
OT, and not really from a bordering country :p, but:
Invalid Link Removed
Not affiliated, don't know if preowned is OK with you, nor if shipping overmountains is OK with the guy. Or if he speaks English or German.
 
OT, and not really from a bordering country :p, but:
Invalid Link Removed
Not affiliated, don't know if preowned is OK with you, nor if shipping overmountains is OK with the guy. Or if he speaks English or German.

Cool, thx!

I'm still struggling a bit, found one used in Germany for 480.-€.
Still...used, no warranty.
Not that I'd expect something to break on a Genz...

Then again I like Uli Behringer's stuff.
The look and feel is a bit more on the cheap side but we've got a couple of Behringers running, and honestly, as strange as it may sound - whenever things failed in our Equipment they were made by other companies.
Latest example: 16 channel Soundcraft console, within 3 months 2 channels gave up with dead op-amps.
Our band-techie was able to replace them, but still...

Then again we have a Behringer 4-channel 19" headphone amp that has been tortured and overdriven for the last 10 years and simply works as if it still was brand new. No scratching potis, nothing.
My BDI-21, made from plastics...doesn't quite sound like a Sansamp but comes close enough.
I mean...33€ new compared to an Tech21 for like 200+€?
Got it for 3 years now, didn't fail a single time yet.
BVV3000 - happy with it for 15 months now.

Guess I'll give one of the Bugenzras a try once they are out.

And as much as I understand that you US guys want to support US brands I am willing to support a German brand.

Ok, it's made in China (like almost every other brand these days...) but engineered in Germany.

I mean...German Engineering!
That's what we're famous for...! :D