• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

String gauge for BEAD on 34"

If anything, “floppy” strings (and I prefer what most would consider “floppy”; more on that in a minute) should add some rattle and clank that would help with definition (though not necessarily intonation). I doubt it was the low tension of the strings that gave you a “dead and dull” sound; much more likely, the strings were either dead (worn out) or duds (defective out of the package).

Yep - strings sound dead and dull because:

1) They should have been changed a while back, or

2) They're flats.

Yes, I know that some guys love flats, and a lot of them sound good playing flats. I'm just not one of those guys.

A note on string life - All rounds have a similar tone profile as they age - brighter than normal at first, then they settle into a very long, slow decline, and eventually you decide it's time to put new ones on. If you find a set of strings you LOVE out of the pack, you've got the wrong strings - a week from now, you'll come back and tell us they "died fast". Nope - it's your fault - you just bought the wrong strings.

Unless you get free strings from the manufacturer, and have a roadie to change them every day, the correct strings for you are strings that, when fresh out of the pack, are...too bright. If you struggle for a week or two when they're new, but after that, they're OK, THOSE are your strings - you'll get many months out of a set. I get about a year out of a set, but with multiple basses, the playing time is spread out - if I only had one bass, it's probably be 3 to 5 months from a set.
 
If you decide to go big for the B, bear in mind that you’ll see rapidly diminishing returns if you increase diameter in hopes of increasing tension once you start to go beyond .130. Let’s say you wanted to go down to A standard tuning. Look at the gauges you’d need for a balanced tension set:

5F701E0A-408E-480A-ABDB-69F536A12F72.png


Going up by .005 or .010 does not buy you a noticeable increase in tension beyond .130, but the thicker string will feel noticeably different. I’m not saying don’t do this; I’m just saying know what you’re getting into.

I’m speculating, but I would venture to guess that this is the reason .130 has become the standard for B0; you have to go up to at least .145 before you get a significant boost in tension.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Omega Monkey
If you decide to go big for the B, bear in mind that you’ll see rapidly diminishing returns if you increase diameter in hopes of increasing tension once you start to go beyond .130. Let’s say you wanted to go down to A standard tuning. Look at the gauges you’d need for a balanced tension set:

View attachment 5052962

Going up by .005 or .010 does not buy you a noticeable increase in tension beyond .130, but the thicker string will feel noticeably different. I’m not saying don’t do this; I’m just saying know what you’re getting into.

I’m speculating, but I would venture to guess that this is the reason .130 has become the standard for B0; you have to go up to at least .145 before you get a significant boost in tension.

Tuning below B has challenges that are far greater elsewhere in the system that the choice of string guage. Even the tour grade subwoofers that reproduce a low B well start to struggle if you go any lower. Bass amps don't even do justice to an open E - a B or lower, forget about it.
 
Riff Ranger brings up some good points. A lot of people seem to misunderstand the whole string gauge/tuning thing. The reason Hendrix did the Eb thing is because there was probably one gauge of strings available back then, and tuning down a bit gave it that relaxed sound. Some of that is setup as well. Like, if you want to sound like Geddy Lee and you have heavy strings and high action, unless you have bear paws for hands, you're going to have a bad time.

If you want a Type O type sound, starting with what Peter used would be a good start. But factoring in that you like heavier strings, maybe start a bit up from there. But to me, when I want to play that style, low action and overdrive or fuzz with some mid cut is a big part of the sound.

What I use on my 5 and 6 string basses is 28/40/55/75/100/130. That's a nicely balanced set that I had to figure out to achieve a target tension of 35 lbs per string. If you like heavier strings you could target 40, but for a tuned down 4 string for metal, you might start with that and then see if you want to go a bit heavier on the next set. Setup will also make a big difference in feel and sound. I would be surprised if you can't get good feel and sound out of a 130 with the right action and truss rod settings.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Riff Ranger
Riff Ranger brings up some good points. A lot of people seem to misunderstand the whole string gauge/tuning thing. The reason Hendrix did the Eb thing is because there was probably one gauge of strings available back then, and tuning down a bit gave it that relaxed sound. Some of that is setup as well. Like, if you want to sound like Geddy Lee and you have heavy strings and high action, unless you have bear paws for hands, you're going to have a bad time.

If you want a Type O type sound, starting with what Peter used would be a good start. But factoring in that you like heavier strings, maybe start a bit up from there. But to me, when I want to play that style, low action and overdrive or fuzz with some mid cut is a big part of the sound.

What I use on my 5 and 6 string basses is 28/40/55/75/100/130. That's a nicely balanced set that I had to figure out to achieve a target tension of 35 lbs per string. If you like heavier strings you could target 40, but for a tuned down 4 string for metal, you might start with that and then see if you want to go a bit heavier on the next set. Setup will also make a big difference in feel and sound. I would be surprised if you can't get good feel and sound out of a 130 with the right action and truss rod settings.
^BINGO :thumbsup:
 
Tuning below B has challenges that are far greater elsewhere in the system that the choice of string guage. Even the tour grade subwoofers that reproduce a low B well start to struggle if you go any lower. Bass amps don't even do justice to an open E - a B or lower, forget about it.
All true, though I think anything below B0 is all about overtones and psychoacoustics; if you want to reproduce strong fundamentals below E1, you should be playing pipe organs :laugh:
 
All true, though I think anything below B0 is all about overtones and psychoacoustics; if you want to reproduce strong fundamentals below E1, you should be playing pipe organs :laugh:

Good PA subwoofers (often dual 15's or dual 18's with several kilowatts per cabinet, and often employed in large numbers) can absolutely reproduce the fundamental of a low B string - if you get to play through a rig like that (I'm lucky that I get to do that on a regular basis), any bass amp (yes, even your SVT/fridge 810) is a disappointment after that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Riff Ranger
Good PA subwoofers (often dual 15's or dual 18's with several kilowatts per cabinet, and often employed in large numbers) can absolutely reproduce the fundamental of a low B string - if you get to play through a rig like that (I'm lucky that I get to do that on a regular basis), any bass amp (yes, even your SVT/fridge 810) is a disappointment after that.
Agreed, but do bass guitars even produce much fundamental below E1? Maybe enough that it would leap out with the right EQ through a huge PA? Now I want to try that :laugh: and also a pipe organ :roflmao:
 
Agreed, but do bass guitars even produce much fundamental below E1? Maybe enough that it would leap out with the right EQ through a huge PA? Now I want to try that :laugh: and also a pipe organ :roflmao:

If the rig will support it, a low B from a 5 string is literally an Earth shaking experience. And, just so you know, the E on that string (5th fret on the B string) has better low end than an open E string. Magnetic pickups (the things that turn string movement into electricity) have no low end rolloff - the low frequency response is absolutely flat down there. Coming out of the bass, there's a considerable amount of 30hz stuff from a 5 string.

Most bass amps have a high pass somewhere in the circuit path, which means they don't do a low E justice - that's done so the speakers in the bass cab don't get pushed too hard. Between the speaker not doing it, and the amp not pushing it, a 5 string through a bass amp is OK, but it is never very good. The "mud" that's talked about here is not created by reproducing too much fundamental - done well - a lot of fundamental is actually awesome. The mud happens when speakers that can't reproduce low fundamentals are pushed too hard, and they distort, creating stuff higher up - 200 to 300 ish.

My rig is a pedalboard, and a PA. My high pass (set on a Source Audio EQ2) is set at 17.5 Hz - that leaves 30 Hz flat, so my low B comes through strong. I have yet to vibrate myself off a stage from the shaking that occurs, but that experience is on my bucket list.
 
Last edited:
If the rig will support it, a low B from a 5 string is literally an Earth shaking experience. And, just so you know, the E (5th fret on the B string) has better low end than an open E string. Magnetic pickups (the things that turn string movement into electricity) have no low end rolloff - the low frequency response is absolutely flat down there.

Most bass amps have a high pass somewhere in the circuit path, which means they don't do a low E justice - that's done so the speakers in the bass cab don't get pushed too hard. The "mud" that's talked about here is not created by reproducing too much fundamental - done well, a lot of fundamental is awesome. The mud happens when speakers that can't reproduce low fundamentals are pushed too hard, and they distort, creating stuff higher up - 200 to 300 ish.

My rig is a pedalboard, and a PA. My high pass (set on a Source Audio EQ2) is set at 17.5 Hz - that leaves 30 Hz flat, so my low B comes through strong. I have yet to vibrate myself off a stage from the shaking that occurs, but that experience is on my bucket list.
Thanks for the detailed reply. Sounds like a blast (literally)!
 
Thanks for the detailed reply. Sounds like a blast (literally)!

It's actually more like an earthquake - it's not ridiculously loud, it's just this awesome shaking that correlates with the notes you're playing. All my gigs are on in ears (its much quieter on state than it is in the audience). The combination of loud, but not too loud in your ears, and the earth moving is an awesome feeling of power. I'm pretty sure i have a silly grin on my face most of the time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Riff Ranger
I currently have DR Stainless Steel Lo Riders 65-125 tuned BEAD on my Schecter Raiden Special-4 and the feel is excellent. I’ll be playing it at rehearsal on Tuesday; I’m anxious to see how it sounds.

I’m going to add the DR DDTs to my try list. I’m a big fan of DR Strings and I’ve really been enjoying BEAD tuning.
 
curious to know how you like them as well. I have them on both my 4 and 5, and i use 50-110 on the 4 and 45-125 on the 5.
I have even used 45-105 on the 4 and kept it totally in Drop B
I installed the DDT set on my Schecter custom 4 yesterday. I left them in E A D G overnight then tuned to B E A D today. I had to turn two flats C clockwise on the truss rod and then raised the action a full turn at the bridge as I had the action pretty low with the old Da’s. I just ran a few riffs, the thunder is definitely in the house. The nut seems ok. If any issues pop up I will seek advice. Thanks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Not_Shane
So I just installed a set of sandberg 65-130’s and it feels great. I had to drill the bridge but it was cheap so I don’t mind. Surprisingly the 65-string broke while intonating, bjt all tve others strings hold up and sound great. I might try a 145 in the future, but honestly these feel really good.
Thanks for all the advice guys!
.065 is a common gauge for D2, and while it always seemed a bit tight for me at 50#, I’m surprised to hear it snapped on you. Even so, you seem happy so I’m happy for you :thumbsup:
 
There's a simple way to figure out the string gauges you want for a BEAD tuning. The E, A and D you use the same gauge that you'd use of a 4 string for the E, A , and D. For the B string, assuming you want the tension to be in the same ballpark as your E string, you multiply your E string gauge by 1.33 - if your E is a .100, you want a .133 (round up to .135).

Yes, a .135 sounds big, but it's correct. All the talk about floppy B string being related to the bass somehow "having a floppy B" is a red herring - the string gauge and scale length dictate whether or not the string is floppy. Most string manufacturers undersize their B strings - 40-60-80-100-120 somehow seems "right",..... but it isn't. Your strings are tuned in a geometric sequence of frequencies - each bigger string is 3/4th the frequency of the skinnier one next to it (tuning in 4ths), so your strings (doing a bit of math, and there's a square root and a square that cancel each other out, and....that 1.33 (or 4/3rds) rule is the right math.

Physics rant over. I spent a lot of years studying this stuff, hoping you can forgive the intrusion of science and math into a bass guitar forum.

I've always followed this and I hate how it's not the standard for major brands. Having to buy custom gauge sets is a pain. Ernie ball and d'addario have way too much tension on the second and third strings and not nearly enough on the 5th. Instead of 45-65-80-100-130, it's really supposed to be 45-60-80-105-140. DR is even worse, their 3rd is 85 and 5th 125, so the tension is even further off balance. How Alex Webster from cannibal corpse uses a .125 hi-beam set for G# is beyond me, I can't stand a .125 for even just B. Hit it too hard one time and it's already out of tune
 
I've always followed this and I hate how it's not the standard for major brands. Having to buy custom gauge sets is a pain. Ernie ball and d'addario have way too much tension on the second and third strings and not nearly enough on the 5th. Instead of 45-65-80-100-130, it's really supposed to be 45-60-80-105-140. DR is even worse, their 3rd is 85 and 5th 125, so the tension is even further off balance. How Alex Webster from cannibal corpse uses a .125 hi-beam set for G# is beyond me, I can't stand a .125 for even just B. Hit it too hard one time and it's already out of tune

Balanced tension vs. balanced tone... As a former "balanced tension enthusiast" I learned "balanced tension" doesn't always guarantee "balanced tone". I've found a low B bigger than .130 didn't sound all that great on my 34" scale Yamahas. I would sacrifice tension balance for tonal balance any day, and that usually means the low B with a slightly lower tension than the rest.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Riff Ranger
I've always followed this and I hate how it's not the standard for major brands. Having to buy custom gauge sets is a pain. Ernie ball and d'addario have way too much tension on the second and third strings and not nearly enough on the 5th. Instead of 45-65-80-100-130, it's really supposed to be 45-60-80-105-140. DR is even worse, their 3rd is 85 and 5th 125, so the tension is even further off balance. How Alex Webster from cannibal corpse uses a .125 hi-beam set for G# is beyond me, I can't stand a .125 for even just B. Hit it too hard one time and it's already out of tune
Balanced tension vs. balanced tone... As a former "balanced tension enthusiast" I learned "balanced tension" doesn't always guarantee "balanced tone". I've found a low B bigger than .130 didn't sound all that great on my 34" scale Yamahas. I would sacrifice tension balance for tonal balance any day, and that usually means the low B with a slightly lower tension than the rest.
"Usually" or "for you, with those particular <130 strings, on that particular bass"?
I've definitely seen reports by people using ≥140 low B strings, and being satisfied by both their tension and their tone.

(In fact, this led me to hypothesise something like a "sour spot" centered around .135", but I've never pursued it further.)


A couple assorted musings:

- Webster likes his 125 G#'s, Pinnick his 100 low A's (!). Obviously, we're all different and what works for one doesn't for another

- what I would reasonably expect to objectively change, with a significant increase in gauge, is a worsening of tone (in terms of both a darkening and an increase of inharmonicity) up the neck. Tone of a single string is not the same across the (literal) board, regardless of gauge, but a stiffer string will probably sound subpar (inharmonic, chorusy) at a lower spot (i.e. closer to the nut) than a more flexible one
- the above is of course moot if one only rarely ventures past the 12th fret, if at all, on one's low B

- a 4-string bass tuned to BEAD, compared to a G-string equipped four- or five-stringer, has inherently worse access to high notes,
- which implies the tuning's target audience (besides a common aversion to 5-string basses) is either 1) players, typically (but not exclusively) metal ones, that are content with staying relatively close to the nut; or 2) players who need to use the entire board and, specifically, to spend a lot of time in the mid-neck region (if subbass passages are occasional, and there is a more frequent need for constant back and forths between the conventional bass register and treble notes)

- the first group, in turn, may gravitate toward low-gauge low B strings (110~125) for reasons of tradition (a lot of non-standard, drop or standard C~D tuning metal features relatively thin, 100~110 gauge strings as the lowest in the set, which distinctive tone many players will want to translate to BEAD tuning
- however, a break from the aforesaid 'metal downflop' tradition may open the same set of players to the benefits of a 140~150 gauge low B (a clearer, more aggressive tone, albeit confined to the first 5~9 frets)

- conversely, the 'mostly midneck' group, who only occasionally need access to the B~Eb region, and tend to fret their F1~D2 notes on the B string rather than on the E string, may want to reassess string flexibility (ergo low-inharmonicity) as a priority vs. tension (or, more exactly, resistance to the plucking hand), precisely because they have a higher need for the 10th~15th fret region of their low B not to suck than a 5-string player has
- I would expect the latter group to benefit more from either thin gauges or unconventionally-flexible (thin core, roundcore, rope-core) strings.


Uhm, tl:dr -> it all depends? ^^
 
Last edited: