String Length in relation to String Tension

[purplehearted]

Hello,
This question has been bugging me for a while.
I've got some short scale basses, often do I find the strings for them too loose (I like a bit stiff feel), I wondered if you were to put medium scale strings on a short scale bass (instead of short scale strings) does the string tension get looser or stiffer? Or does it only have to do with the thickness of the strings (ofc also the brand, but let's assume it's the same brand)

There must be some logic to this, but my brain is farting out on this one

 

[HaphAsSard]

Hello,
This question has been bugging me for a while.
I've got some short scale basses, often do I find the strings for them too loose (I like a bit stiff feel), I wondered if you were to put medium scale strings on a short scale bass (instead of short scale strings) does the string tension get looser or stiffer? Or does it only have to do with the thickness of the strings (ofc also the brand, but let's assume it's the same brand)

There must be some logic to this, but my brain is farting out on this one

Medium scale string sets may either be
- calibrated, in terms of gauge (very rarely in other details of construction)*, for what the manufacturer subjectively considers being a good recipe of tone vs tension for that scale,
- or (and this is usually the case) simply the exact same, construction-wise (same cores, same windings), as long or short scale string sets they make, only wound to length (so that they are long enough to clear the nut, yet taper before the tuning post).

As far as tension proper (lengthways pull on the neck), pitch being equal, it is only the mass of the strings in the actual scale of the instrument that matters.
If you have four strings with the same mass per linear inch ( = if, cutting one inch of full diameter off each four, these segments weigh the same) aka "unit weight"; but one is wound long enough to fit a short scale, another medium, the third standard long scale, the last superlong scale; and you install them on each four slots of your short-scale bass and tune them in unison:
they will have the same tension. Because pitch is equal, and so is the scale of the instrument (30"), bridge to nut.
In other words, that the full-gauge section of string past the nut is zero, two, four, or one million inches long matters zilch, as far as tension goes.


* [In the very rare - possibly non-existent - case the manufacturer has bothered designing the string differently (in terms of core-to-wrap ratio) from the long scale counterpart, there may also be differences in stiffness (as opposed to tension proper, as defined above), which the player experiences as """"tension"""", compounded with the above-described slight differences in actual tension.
This is exponentially more likely to occur when comparing strings of different model or make.]

 

[Zooberwerx]

Hello,
This question has been bugging me for a while.
I've got some short scale basses, often do I find the strings for them too loose (I like a bit stiff feel), I wondered if you were to put medium scale strings on a short scale bass (instead of short scale strings) does the string tension get looser or stiffer? Or does it only have to do with the thickness of the strings (ofc also the brand, but let's assume it's the same brand)

There must be some logic to this, but my brain is farting out on this one

In real world application, I'd stick with the correct scale length as tails, tapers, transitions come into play. I'd be looking more closely at string gauge, core type, and the recommendations of those using similar basses.

Riis

 

[ajkula66]

For some short scale users, the rule of the thumb is to go one gauge "up" from what they would use on a long scale bass. So if I were using 40-100 LS my short scale would be strung 45-105 - presuming the same type of strings - and so forth.

The biggest problem for me personally in the short scale world is lack of options when it comes to sets where E is 110, which is my preferred gauge for the roundwounds.

My $0.02 only...

 

[iiipopes]

Let us distinguish two concepts: 1) tension; and 2) feel.

Tension, as in pulling force, is a function of scale length, pitch, and unit mass of the string (not diameter or anything else) as measured between the bridge saddle and nut. This is a static value based only on these variables, and these variables alone.

Feel can be a result of the other variables, including type of manufacture (flats v rounds for example), hex or round core, core v wrap diameters, tightness of wrap, etc. These variables function independently of tension.

It is difficult to balance a string with enough tension that it will intonate properly and not be either floppy or go thud on the lower strings on a short scale bass. Even the Italian harpsichord builders of the 1600's had this issue. It is a function of physics of the string vibrating in partials to match the rest of the set.

OK. The preceding is the lecture. Now the sales pitch.

I have found GHS Balanced Nickels to be God's gift to short scale bass players. Because they are roundwound, they retain the flexibility to have consistent tone string-to-string and up the neck. Because they are pure nickel wrap instead of NPS, they have more mass, and the .106 E string approaches the tension of an NPS .110 without thumping out. They are reasonably priced and last a long, long time. As they age, they can take on some of the woodiness of tone of "golden age" Fender flats. I keep a set on my short scale bass.