String tension question - flats

[Thebiggestjerk]

A lot of this is very complex, overwrought thinking for a very simple and straightforward issue.

A tension change on the strings changes the bow on the neck, period...and that's why we have adjustable truss rods. It's pretty much that simple.

On a bass with a properly functioning neck, the goal should not be to avoid adjusting it. The goal should be to adjust it as needed. You should welcome this adjustment ability, not shirk away from it. It gives you control and options.

Your idea of older rods not liking to be adjusted is off the mark. Old basses can adjust fine. New basses right out of the factory can have inoperative rods. It isn't about age, but condition. If you can't adjust the rod confidently and effectively any time you want, then your bass does not fully work, period. This can happen on a bass of any age. Again, it means the bass is not a properly functioning tool. Replace it or fix it; don't limit yourself to working around it.

Somehow the concept of truss rod adjustment strikes fear in the hearts of lot players and it should not. The biggest problem most will encounter is stripping the nut slot by using the wrong sized wrench. Wood bends and rods are very strong… although not recommended, a few whole turns (exaggeration) isn’t going to break the neck… there’s a pretty high tolerance involved, but in fact most rod adjustments can be don’t with a 1/8-1/4turn.

 

[nonohmic]

My dream bass Roscoe LG3000 would not take anything lower than a .105 set. Even with the truss rod loosened completely it would buzz with .100, which are my preferred gauge. Had to sell it, unfortunately.

 

[SLO Surfer]

I have a question about string tension. I did a search and nothing exactly answered my question. Plus, I prefer a dialogue rather than a lonely research session, so...

How exactly does lower tension affect the relief on a bass neck? One of my older basses has really great action but I'm curious how the neck would respond to lower tension string.

Currently it has Labella 760FS strings. They're great. I've been looking at Labella LTFs. Would switching to those automatically take some relief out of the neck? Or is that not how tension works?

Obviously, a simple truss rod adjustment can help. But I don't want to go cranking on that truss rod too much, since it's already in a pretty good spot. Plus, it's a bit of an older basses. I feel like those necks don't want to move too much after having been where they are for a good long while.

Just curious if a low-tension string could be a more elegant solution for getting just a little bit more relief out of the neck.

Thoughts?

Yes.

I always check and (if needed) adjust a truss rod whenever I change strings on a bass (or every year, if I don’t change strings in that time). Just the process of changing strings, even swapping to the exact same brand/model string, can alter the neck relief enough to require a tweak of the truss rod.

 

[whero]

... I don't want to go cranking on that truss rod too much, since it's already in a pretty good spot ...

I guess the point I'd make is that the spot the truss rod is in is only good because it's appropriately balancing the tension from the strings that are on the bass. Change the strings to a set with markedly different tension, and that spot probably won't be so good.

And you won't have to crank it too much. A little tweak or two will probably be enough.

 

[primusfan1989]

Just curious if a low-tension string could be a more elegant solution for getting just a little bit more relief out of the neck.
Thoughts?

No, there is nothing elegant about switching strings to achieve your desired neck relief.

...I don't want to go cranking on that truss rod too much, since it's already in a pretty good spot....

I don't even understand what you're trying to accomplish, if you decrease the tension (new set of low tension strings) and do not adjust the truss rod you will likely have less relief than you did before thus changing the action. You could also loosen the strings to study the affect that string tension has on neck relief...that would be a lot cheaper than a new set of strings.

But again, I don't understand what you're looking to accomplish, the OP doesn't really make sense

 

[rojo412]

I put LTFs on an older Modulus with no truss rod, hoping the claim of low tension would ease the bow/relief that it had from a set of 40-100 rounds.
They still felt kinda heavy, whereas I was hoping they'd compare to the feel of them to TI Flats... which they definitely did not. And the relief in the neck didn't change either.

Compared to something like Chromes or Rotosound, LTFs do seem lighter in feel. More like a typical roundwound-type flexibility. Just not "noodly" like TIs.

 

[MidlifeBeginner]

Expect you will need to make adjustments at the bridge also.

The LTF flats are not just different tension. They are designed with different flexibility. They lower the diameter to not need as much tension, but use a stiffer construction to offset flop.

 

[Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati]

I have a question about string tension. I did a search and nothing exactly answered my question. Plus, I prefer a dialogue rather than a lonely research session, so...

How exactly does lower tension affect the relief on a bass neck? One of my older basses has really great action but I'm curious how the neck would respond to lower tension string.

Currently it has Labella 760FS strings. They're great. I've been looking at Labella LTFs. Would switching to those automatically take some relief out of the neck? Or is that not how tension works?

Obviously, a simple truss rod adjustment can help. But I don't want to go cranking on that truss rod too much, since it's already in a pretty good spot. Plus, it's a bit of an older basses. I feel like those necks don't want to move too much after having been where they are for a good long while.

Just curious if a low-tension string could be a more elegant solution for getting just a little bit more relief out of the neck.

Thoughts?

In right physics terms what matters is not the tension, which is influenced by the cross-sectional area of the strings, but the force acting on each string (by tension or stress, in Europe at least, it is meant the ratio between the force and the area of the cross-section of each string).
Secondly, the material composing the strings is also important as its elastic modulus will dictate how much force shall be applied onto each string to reach the required elongation in order for it to be in tune.
The lesser the force on the strings, the smaller the bending moment on the neck and, hence, its deflection.

The bending moment on the neck’s section, inducing deflection, is generated by the eccentricity of the strings’ force line of action with respect to the local centroid of the neck’s cross section.
Such deflection is countered by that generated by the force released onto the neck by the truss-rod, which has got an eccentricity of opposite value (I know, not understandable by many but the definitions are correct; look for bending moment and beams deflection in Wikipedia with sketches, everything will be clear).

In short, less force in the strings when in tune, less neck deflection, smaller need to adjust the truss-rod.

 

[Turnaround]

Obviously, a simple truss rod adjustment can help. But I don't want to go cranking on that truss rod too much, since it's already in a pretty good spot.

It's only in a "pretty good spot" because it is nicely balancing the string tension. Change the string tension and it will be a less good spot. So adjust the truss rod until it's in a "pretty good spot" again.

 

[GIBrat51]

I have a question about string tension. I did a search and nothing exactly answered my question. Plus, I prefer a dialogue rather than a lonely research session, so...

How exactly does lower tension affect the relief on a bass neck? One of my older basses has really great action but I'm curious how the neck would respond to lower tension string.

Currently it has Labella 760FS strings. They're great. I've been looking at Labella LTFs. Would switching to those automatically take some relief out of the neck? Or is that not how tension works?

Obviously, a simple truss rod adjustment can help. But I don't want to go cranking on that truss rod too much, since it's already in a pretty good spot. Plus, it's a bit of an older basses. I feel like those necks don't want to move too much after having been where they are for a good long while.

Just curious if a low-tension string could be a more elegant solution for getting just a little bit more relief out of the neck.

Thoughts?

Well...
Number one: The tension of the strings - any strings - attached somehow to the body and the headstock - will pull on the headstock, which will react by bending the neck. How much, depends on the neck - and, how much tension the strings exert. The truss rod is designed to a) counteract that tension, and 2) allow you to control the amount of bending the neck does. Otherwise known as "setting the neck relief"...
Number two: If your neck is currently set to counteract the tension of the strings the bass is wearing now - and you are happy with the relief you have? Well, usually, switching to strings with a lower tension will let the truss rod - at it's current setting - pull the neck up even more than it is now, because it's no longer fighting the same amount of tension from the strings. It's now "winning" the tug-o-war contest, and it will now give you more relief. Installing strings with less tension, will usually require you to back the truss rod off a little, to let the neck straighten out. And,
Number three. While it's sometimes a little... scary... to mess with a trussrod - if you haven't done it before? It really isn't rocket science. And, the thing to remember is - that trussrod is designed - and intended - to be adjusted; which means - that nut is meant to be used. An awful lot of the problems that people encounter when they put a wrench/ Allen key/whatever - on the thing, is... it's frozen in place; and won't turn. Why? Because no one has EVER turned the thing. This is why you find used basses with necks that are back-bowed into something Robin Hood could use - or, it's bowed up into a banana, so far that nothing can straighten out. And, the neck is now trash; the whole bass is, if it's a neck-thru. A set neck? Well, money can fix a lot, but... they're usually firewood, too. If your bass is set up how you like it; neck relief, string height, etc.? The only thing you should ever have to touch, to compensate for weather changes like heat/cold, humidity/dryness - are the tuner keys, and the truss rod nut. Just a tweak to loosen or tighten it, is all it should ever take, to get things back to where you like it. It was designed to be adjusted - so, adjust it. All you're doing by avoiding it, is storing up trouble for yourself - or the next owner - in the future...

 

[MidlifeBeginner]

If users weren't meant to adjust the truss rod, new basses wouldn't come with an allen wrench.

 

[MrUsefulAlien]

1. Lower tension than current strings = loosen the truss rod.
2. Different thickness string = adjust saddle heights.
3. Adjust intonation when changing any string set.

 

[Turnaround]

Well, usually, switching to strings with a lower tension will let the truss rod - at it's current setting - pull the neck up even more than it is now, because it's no longer fighting the same amount of tension from the strings. It's now "winning" the tug-o-war contest, and it will now give you more relief.

You got this backwards. Less tension will cause the neck to ben back, reducing relief, not increasing it.