Strings Breaking... At the tuning pegs

[Zooberwerx]

I'm not sure I see the point... what does this method do that the method Fender teaches does not? Because bending the end of the string 180 degrees before it's inserted is a method, but I've never heard of someone doing what you do... It also seems like potential hassle, because the method you describe opens up the possibility of cutting the nubbin too long and ending up with the kink in the wire not actually being seated in the tuner.

This harks back to preventing the wrap from unraveling from the core. If the nubbin is too long, you can always trim it to spec. Here's my process: measure the string 3.5" past the tuner, force a 90 degree bend, trim & insert. It's actually a fairly standard approach. This will also give you the desired 3 wraps.

Riis

 

[jdjk7]

This harks back to preventing the wrap from unraveling from the core. If the nubbin is too long, you can always trim it to spec. Here's my process: measure the string 3.5" past the tuner, force a 90 degree bend, trim & insert. It's actually a fairly standard approach. This will also give you the desired 3 wraps.

Riis

Well yes, most of it is standard. But bending the string before you put it in the tuner and then trimming the end to length is not something I have ever heard. Trimming the string, inserting it into the tuner, and then bending it while it's inserted in the tuner (as shown in the Fender video) seems to do the same thing...

 

[No Compute]

Gentlemen,

What the previous poster (@Zooberwerx) is saying is this:

Sure, bend the string 180 degrees. But after doing so, clip it just after the bend you have created (literally: just after the bend). This will create the mechanical locking function described above, as well as easily fitting inside the post bore of a ‘F’ style tuner post.

Nobody is wrong here, there are just better ways of achieving the same end goal

 

[tlc1976]

I trim my strings about 2 1/2 inches past their tuner, which allows for 2 safety wraps and works well for me. 3 wraps would probably work just as well. Then position the tuner so the string entry at the slot is about 135 degrees from the string as if it were coming from the nut slot. Poke the string all the way into the tuner, fold it over 90 degrees (by pulling the string, not by kinking), and pull it around the tuner toward the nut slot by hand. Then keep tension on the string while turning the tuner to wind it up. Being watchful so the string doesn’t catch on the corner of anything. Don’t wind them up tight until they’re all in place, then work progressively to tune them all up fully. Then push down to set the witness points. Never do I kink or fold a string freely.

Just realized there is a video posted here somewhere. Didn’t watch it yet. But what I posted works for me. Never had a new string slip or break as long as the windings are the correct length (not so long that they wrap around the tuner).

 

[Deleted member 271037]

Can I get a little clarity here? Are you saying that the strings are so long that when they reach the bottom of the tuning peg that you still have string to wrap to bring the instrument up to pitch and you have to continue winding and over-wrapping the string back up the tuning peg? If so, in my experience, over-wrapping strings on the tuning peg is only an invitation to several issues:

1) Tuning issues - at any time an outer wrapped string can work its in between one of the inner wraps and throw the instrument out of tune. If you have multiple wraps you have multiple possibilities.

2) Over wrapping could also lead to string breakage. The fiction of the string working its way into the under wrappings creating undue wear on the string coupled with the fact that you now have to to put more tension on the string get back up to pitch is a recipe for creating weak spots.

3) Now lets talk about the design of the tuning pegs. They are designed to push the string to the bottom of the tuning peg and keep it there. This was Fender's solution (like it or not) to create a better break angle over the nut. So, if you over wrap the string and bring it back up the shaft, you're decreasing the break angle and therefore defeating the entire purpose of the fluted tuning peg. And this opens up the possibilities for even more issues with the instrument. Used properly, no one should have any issues with these tuning pegs. And this falls back to the owner knowing their instrument. You need to know how long your strings need to be, based on the gauges you use any any other various factors you can think of, to get the windings to the bottom of the shaft and keep them there. The string manufacturers make sting sets that can be [custom] fitted to many different models of basses. Just because they make the string that long does not mean you have to use that entire length of string. Just like buying a pair of insoles for your shoes, you buy for a size range and have to trim them down for your specific size.

Oh, and if not -- never mind! lol

It's not about over wrapping. It's about the fluted tuner posts forcing the wrappings downwards agains the metal base, causing friction. I've broken bass strings FAR too many times when loosening strings and bringing them back up to tension with these Pro/ProII tuners for it to be a coincidence. I've hardly ever had this happen with other tuners.

Like I said, I've never had any problems with the Pro/Pro II tuners during normal, day-to-day use (I own a Pro Precision myself). Only when loosening the strings completely and bringing them back up to tension, which I do on a daily basis at work. If it's just a worn set of D'Addarion XLs it's not a big deal but if a customer needs his Pro/ProII serviced and wants to keep his broken in LaBella flats and they break... not so great.

What the OP said about straightening the strings and causing metal fatigue can also make strings break but most strings can handle this just fine, at least if you've only removed/re-installed them once. Rotos may be an exception. In my experience they seem more prone to metal fatigue than other brands . Maybe Rotos are made from a more brittle type of steel than most other strings? I've experienced the same with their guitar strings (and maybe this is the reason why they include an extra high E with their guitar sets).

 

[Turnaround]

That said, it would still be tricky to pull them out all coiled up even if it's just through the bridge.

It is possible to pull the coiled string through the body ferrules, but getting them back in without straightening them is a real challenge. Like trying to re-string a Strat with used strings.

 

[Turnaround]

Because bending the end of the string 180 degrees before it's inserted is a method, but I've never heard of someone doing what you do (Bending it 90 degrees and cutting)

Now you have heard of two. I believe there are many more. And it is recommended by DR Strings.

 

[Turnaround]

Sure, bend the string 180 degrees.

Not 180 degrees - 90 degrees.

 

[jdjk7]

Now you have heard of two. I believe there are many more. And it is recommended by DR Strings.

What is the advantage of doing this over doing what Fender recommends, which accomplishes the same end goal (a short bent section of string which is inserted into the tuner)?

 

[Zooberwerx]

What is the advantage of doing this over doing what Fender recommends, which accomplishes the same end goal (a short bent section of string which is inserted into the tuner)?

Good point. The goal is to bind / fixate the outer wrap(s) before cutting the string to minimize the chance of unraveling or separating. I don't discriminate whether it be hex or round core.

Riis

 

[Turnaround]

What is the advantage of doing this over doing what Fender recommends, which accomplishes the same end goal (a short bent section of string which is inserted into the tuner)?

Bending the string first ensures that the windings don't slip on the core when it's cut.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

Bending the string first ensures that the windings don't slip on the core when it's cut.

It's always a good idea to do this but it shouldn't really be necessary with hex core strings, only with round core. With hex core strings the method shown in the Fender video should work fine unless the string is faulty.

Of course, Fender don't sell any round core strings so maybe this is a cunning plan to make strings from other companies that DO sell round core strings look like rubbish when they unravel.

 

[jdjk7]

Good point. The goal is to bind / fixate the outer wrap(s) before cutting the string to minimize the chance of unraveling or separating. I don't discriminate whether it be hex or round core.

Riis

Bending the string first ensures that the windings don't slip on the core when it's cut.

As Sorrow said, I'm fairly certain this is only an issue with round core strings. I've been changing strings for nearly a decade now using the method shown in Fender's video, and I've never had windings separate. I've only ever seen separated windings once, and that was on a bass with very old steel roundwounds... they were probably 15 years old when I saw it 5-6 years ago.

 

[No Compute]

As SF stated, it is not a must for hex core strings. But, it also can’t hurt anything, and adds a negligible amount of time to a new install.

I always do it, regardless of core type. But I also look both ways before stepping off the curb to cross a One-Way street. Shouldn’t be necessary either, but doesn’t hurt

 

[Turnaround]

It's always a good idea to do this but it shouldn't really be necessary with hex core strings, only with round core. With hex core strings the method shown in the Fender video should work fine unless the string is faulty.

Of course, Fender don't sell any round core strings so maybe this is a cunning plan to make strings from other companies that DO sell round core strings look like rubbish when they unravel.

Could be, but DR who makes nothing but strings recommends bending before cutting even on their hex cores.