Strings suitable for playing half a tone down

[aridorot]

I pla in a rock/grunge/metal band. I play a 5 string active Ibby SR505. Lately we've decided to tune down half a tone and it seems my attack is suffering because of this. Are there string types or gages more suitable for playing half a tone lower? Thanks!

 

[mmbongo]

You need to go up to a higher gauge, or build your own custom set at Welcome to Bass Strings Online - Your Custom Bass String Shop...

 

[chaosMK]

I know the feeling. Heavier guage will help.

I use a 35" scale for this reason... I really like a lot of tension and attack.

 

[SLaPiNFuNK]

Many Heavy Gauge sets will do the trick...

50-105 / 50-110 and add a .135 low-B, or a .145 depending on the brand you choose to go with.

 

[aridorot]

Thanks alot guys! I will definatly get some heavy gauge strings. Are there any specific brands you'd recomend to achieve a strong attack tunning down?

 

[SLaPiNFuNK]

Really it comes down to a feel and tone preference.

30 people can list 30 different brands and string types... Strong attack w/ ????

 

[Limeman]

I've heard that the DR DDT strings are excellent for drop tunings. Maybe check into them?

 

[FunkMetalBass]

Circle K strings. I cannot recommend a better brand for all downtuning needs. Their Balanced 150 set has a monstrous low B string with plenty of fundamental and all of the upper harmonic clarity. They also sound and feel great tuned down a half step.

 

[mmbongo]

DR DDT for the win! You can tune them down and still have great tension without having to use a stupidly large string which would require a new nut and possibly a new bridge depending on the bridge design.

 

[FunkMetalBass]

DR DDT for the win! You can tune them down and still have great tension without having to use a stupidly large string which would require a new nut and possibly a new bridge depending on the bridge design.

The DDT strings DO use larger gauges (which may or may not require a nut filing), except on the B-string because DR doesn't make anything larger. So the B-string will still be floppy to the OP.

I've also heard that the DDT's sound dark and leave much to be desired tonally.

 

[ixlramp]

Keep in mind ... if you want the Bb and Eb at the same tension the correct gauge pairs are 100 135 or 105 145. So a 145 Bb may look big numerically but it's merely the equivalent of a 105 Eb. Almost all 5 string sets have the B much looser than the other strings which is why it suffers so much when detuned.

 

[mmbongo]

I've also heard that the DDT's sound dark and leave much to be desired tonally.

Haven't heard that from anybody, nor have I experienced it. They are quite lively actually. The B is not floppy because it is designed to require more tension to tune to pitch when tuned down.

 

[FunkMetalBass]

Haven't heard that from anybody, nor have I experienced it. They are quite lively actually. The B is not floppy because it is designed to require more tension to tune to pitch when tuned down.

I've never tried them, so I can't vouch for their tone.

It's still a .135 because they don't make anything larger. Even with a round core and specific wire wrap techniques, they can't do much to increase the mass beyond the typical .135, so it's still about 32 lbs of tension on the Bb string and 43 on the Eb string.

EDIT: For what it's worth, I do like DR strings. I've used a few of their sets in the past (all hex core) and I've never been disappointed. In fact, of the popular, commercial brands, I'd say they have the best product line. However, I think those DDT sets came about out of pure marketing, because they are quite poorly designed.

EDIT EDIT: Nevermind, I see that they use the .115/.135 combination on their normal heavy 5- and 6-string sets, not just the DDTs. I don't understand that logic of increasing the E-string by .010 and the B-string by only .005.

 

[mmbongo]

I've never tried them, so I can't vouch for their tone.

It's still a .135 because they don't make anything larger. Even with a round core and specific wire wrap techniques, they can't do much to increase the mass beyond the typical .135, so it's still about 32 lbs of tension on the Bb string and 43 on the Eb string.

I'd like to know where you got those numbers!

There are many ways to make a string higher tension...use a hex core...use a LARGER hex core..tighter wraps...heavier wraps...more wraps. Just because it's a .135 does not mean it's the same tension as every other .135.

For instance, a Circle K .136 is 39lbs tuned to B, and the DDT is quite a bit higher than that. How high? I don't know, since DR does not publish their tension ratings. But they feel nothing alike.

 

[FunkMetalBass]

I'd like to know where you got those numbers!

There are many ways to make a string higher tension...use a hex core...use a LARGER hex core..tighter wraps...heavier wraps...more wraps. Just because it's a .135 does not mean it's the same tension as every other .135.

For instance, a Circle K .136 is 39lbs tuned to B, and the DDT is quite a bit higher than that. How high? I don't know, since DR does not publish their tension ratings. But they feel nothing alike.

You can get those numbers by comparing D'Addario and Circle K. It gives you an idea of how much tension the strings have. D'Addario .135 at Bb has ~ 32 lbs, Circle K .136 at Bb has ~35 lbs.

As we discussed in the other thread on core type and stiffness, round cores will actually have higher tension than the equivalent hex core. Plus, Circle K wrap their strings in such a way that they are considerably heavier than most other manufacturers', so I'd be absolutely stunned if DR's .135 went above 35 lbs of tension at Bb.

 

[mmbongo]

You can get those numbers by comparing D'Addario and Circle K. It gives you an idea of how much tension the strings have. D'Addario .135 at Bb has ~ 32 lbs, Circle K .136 at Bb has ~35 lbs.

I meant where did you get the tension measurements for DR? I've never seen them.

The only problem I have with using D'Addario's tension chart is that all strings are not the same. Just because brand A's .135 measures 35lbs of tension does not mean brand B will measure 35lbs of tension.

Example. Look at D'Addario's .130 strings. The XL has 34lbs of tension but the same string in the longer length has 38lbs. Same core, same windings, but that's a huge difference in tension.

Look at D'Addario's .145. Mesures 46lbs.
Now look at Circle K's .142...42 lbs.
You have to go to a .150 Circle K to get the same tension as a D'Addario .145.

 

[FunkMetalBass]

I meant where did you get the tension measurements for DR? I've never seen them.

There aren't any specifically, but really, there's only so much material you can fit into something with a .135" cross-sectional diameter and still have a useable string, so the variance in tension of the same gauge between manufacturers isn't that drastic. I'd venture a guess that it's probably a variance of 6-7 lbs of tension at most.

EDIT: In case you're curious, I found the density of music wire and found that, if you use a .135" diameter piece of solid wire (the maximum achievable mass you could get on a .135 string), you would have a unit weight of 0.004065142 lb/in, which would give you about 46.4 lbs of tension at B at the 34" scale. However, it would sound terrible because it would be incredibly inflexible.

The only problem I have with using D'Addario's tension chart is that all strings are not the same. Just because brand A's .135 measures 35lbs of tension does not mean brand B will measure 35lbs of tension.

Example. Look at D'Addario's .130 strings. The XL has 34lbs of tension but the same string in the longer length has 38lbs. Same core, same windings, but that's a huge difference in tension.

This actually spawns from a problem in D'Addario's chart and its incompleteness (they don't show the tension at each note and they don't tell you the scale length for their measurements). Look at the unit weight of each string. They are exactly the same, so they are in fact the same string. D'Addario measures the tension of their Long Scale strings with a 34" scale and their Super Long Scale strings with a 36" scale, so that's why there is a 4lb difference in tension.

Look at D'Addario's .145. Mesures 46lbs.
Now look at Circle K's .142...42 lbs.
You have to go to a .150 Circle K to get the same tension as a D'Addario .145.

This is the same issue as before. D'Addario .145 @ B (36" scale) measures 46 lbs of tension, but at the 34" scale (listed one page up under Long Scale), it's only 41.5 lbs. Circle K's measurements are all taken with a 34" scale in mind.

String tension is directly proportional to unit weight, frequency, and scale length in the sense that increasing any of the three increases string tension.

 

[mmbongo]

This actually spawns from a problem in D'Addario's chart and its incompleteness (they don't show the tension at each note and they don't tell you the scale length for their measurements). Look at the unit weight of each string. They are exactly the same, so they are in fact the same string. D'Addario measures the tension of their Long Scale strings with a 34" scale and their Super Long Scale strings with a 36" scale, so that's why there is a 4lb difference in tension.

Well that makes sense, then. That's kind of goofy of them to do without making mention of doing it! I was wondering how there was so much difference.

 

[FunkMetalBass]

Well that makes sense, then. That's kind of goofy of them to do without making mention of doing it! I was wondering how there was so much difference.

It wasn't even until I was doing some comparisons with D'Addario's tension guide earlier this year that I noticed the issue. I created a tension calculator as a direct result, just so that I could figure out what scale length they measured at and could adapt things to my exact scale length and tuning.

I've attached it to this post if you're interested. It has all of the Circle K unit weights on it, but not D'Addario (because it was a nightmare to try to integrate).

 

[ixlramp]

D'Addario measures the tension of their Long Scale strings with a 34" scale and their Super Long Scale strings with a 36" scale, so that's why there is a 4lb difference in tension.

Yep up on page 5 of the tension guide it a says:

The following scale lengths were used to determine the string tensions found on the tension charts in this brochure.
Acoustic/Electric/Classical Guitar = 25 1/2"
Electric Bass Guitar (Superlong Scale) = 36"
Electric Bass Guitar (Long Scale) = 34"
Electric Bass Guitar (Medium Scale) = 32"
Electric Bass Guitar (Short Scale) = 30"