Strings Vs. Setup

[squeally dan]

Just traded for a used 2004 USA P and I love it. However, it is a little tougher to play than what I’m used too. It has what I think are GHS Precision flats installed. I dig the tone. I have on order a set of TI flats (on sale via Amazon) which is what I’ve liked on my j bass in the past? So I need to get the action adjusted or put the TI flats on and see if that corrects? I know they will be less stiff. Never used TIs on a P but assume I’ll like them.

 

[michael_t]

Just traded for a used 2004 USA P and I love it. However, it is a little tougher to play than what I’m used too.

"Tougher" as in for fretting or for plucking? The extra stiffness of those strings would allow a lower action but that would only help your left-hand (fretting) but not your right (plucking).

 

[squeally dan]

"Tougher" as in for fretting or for plucking? The extra stiffness of those strings would allow a lower action but that would only help your left-hand (fretting) but not your right (plucking).

Harder on fretting hand only

 

[iiipopes]

Harder on fretting hand only

Sounds like what you need is a complete setup instead of a set of the overpriced TI rubber bands.

 

[squeally dan]

Sounds like what you need is a complete setup instead of a set of the overpriced TI rubber bands.

I like TIs when I had them on a J but have never tried them on a P. They are $61 on Amazon. My last set lasted 10 years. That’s about 6 bucks per year, so doesn’t seem overpriced to me. Actually seems like a bargain.

 

[Grinderman]

Strings Vs. Setup

False dichotomy.

This makes me wonder how much this factors into common concerns about how flexible or stiff strings are. (not talking string pull but I think that gets overblown too)

I've got DTF 7060Ms on one P, 55-105 GHS P flats on the other and 55-105 9050M flats on my Jazz.

Never do feel or think for even a moment, damn, these strings are hard or fatiguing to play, and it's probably not due to having exceptionally strong or amazing hands.

 

[squeally dan]

Strings Vs. Setup

False dichotomy.

This makes me wonder how much this factors into common concerns about how flexible or stiff strings are. (not talking string pull but I think that gets overblown too)

I've got DTF 7060Ms on one P, 55-105 GHS P flats on the other and 55-105 9050M flats on my Jazz.

Never do feel or think for even a moment, damn, these strings are hard or fatiguing to play, and it's probably not due to having exceptionally strong or amazing hands.

I take this to mean you think I need a setup.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

This is impossible to answer properly without actually seeing/playing your bass and also knowing which gauge GHS flats you've got. The difference between their 45-95 and 55-105 sets is HUGE, both in "feel" and actual tension.

Generally I would expect your bass to need a setup when changing to TI flats (wonderful strings btw), even if you're currently using the lightest GHS set. If you're using a heavier GHS set then yeah, you will definitely need a setup if you install TI flats.

Whether your bass is properly set up right now is of course impossible to answer without seeing/playing it. For all I know you bass could be set up horribly which would definitely make it much harder to play.

A proper setup is more than "getting the action adjusted" though. I expect the truss rod will need to be loosened when going from GHS to TI flats. You might also need to get a new nut to avoid buzzing with the lighter gauge TI flats. If you're lucky, maybe your current nut is a bit high (which could explain why the bass is tougher to play). This might leave a bit of room for filing the bottom of the slots to fit the lighter gauge strings better (you might get buzz with slots made for heavier gauge strings).

Saddle heights might also need to be adjusted. Intonation wil DEFINITELY need to be adjusted.

How low you can set the action without buzzing will also depend on the condition of the frets. If the frets are very worn they might need levelling+crowning if you want the bass set up for low action with no fret buzz.

The fact that you need to ask about these things suggests to me that you probably don't have much experience with setting up a bass properly. My advice is to bring it to a luthier or a good guitar tech.

 

[Grinderman]

I take this to mean you think I need a setup.

A complete setup is positively necessary because you're planning to change from GHS P flats to TI flats. If you were keeping the GHS P flats, even then, you still most likely do.

 

[jj.833]

Never used TIs on a P but assume I’ll like them.

I like mine, and I was never too keen to use flats before I bought TIs. Just put them on and you'll have your answer. You can't do the setup till the new strings are on the bass. Since TIs have less tension than generally everything, it's likely you will need to do a setup to get rid of selective buzz (truss rod) and to get the action higher (bridge saddles). If you need to adjust the truss rod, you will surely have to loosen it to adjust for less tension. To raise the action, just screw the bridge saddles higher. If the initial buzz is so high that you can't decide on truss rod adjustment, raise the bridge saddles first, then truss, then adjust the bridge again. See a video or two on youtube, or read a Fender manual which I think can be found on their website. It's simple and you can't really do nothing wrong if you use your brain. Accomplishing the setup, you'll learn an important lesson about the bass!

I lifted my TIs higher than was neccessary, because I feel I can control the dynamics better that way, and the lower tension is very comfortable on the left hand even with raised action. Setting up for higher action is easy.

 

[68Goldfish]

I definitely think that a poor setup will make otherwise middle of the road strings hard to play. I’d say if you like the sound of the current strings then check the setup to make sure too much relief or to high saddle height isn’t causing it. There’s lots of good videos on you tube on the matter. You’ll have definitely need a setup with any radical string change though. Makes me wonder if the last guy to change the strings didn’t just slap them on with no adjustments and now there’s to much relief. Or possibly a big climate change from where the bass was to where it’s at now can effect the setup making it harder to play or even fret out when played.

 

[Zooberwerx]

Just traded for a used 2004 USA P and I love it. However, it is a little tougher to play than what I’m used too. It has what I think are GHS Precision flats installed. I dig the tone. I have on order a set of TI flats (on sale via Amazon) which is what I’ve liked on my j bass in the past? So I need to get the action adjusted or put the TI flats on and see if that corrects? I know they will be less stiff. Never used TIs on a P but assume I’ll like them.

Why is it tougher to play? Strings too stiff? Lousy set-up? Combination or not too sure? Are you able to do your own basic set-ups? This is coming from a guy who just installed a set of TIJR's...the TI flats will feel extremely different under your fingertips and will undoubtedly require set-up compensation for the lighter gauge & tension.

First thing I would do is withdraw / retreat each saddle 1/4"+, install the strings per protocol, and tune to pitch. You will need to loosen the truss rod to normalize relief...a capo (...or extra set of hand!) and feeler gauges are a must.

Riis

 

[Madcity Fats]

A couple of thoughts:

First, yes, any change in string brand/gauge is likely to require some setup tweak. You may get lucky, but at least be prepared for the possibility. Second, if a bass seems to play "stiff" when I try it out, the first thing I do is look at the string height at the first fret. I find most manufacturers tend not to cut their nut slots to the proper depth (or perhaps they just er on the side of caution). So if you're switching strings, change them first, but make sure the proper nut adjustment is part of your setup routine. You'd be amazed how many people skip this and it's the difference between a decent playing bass and a great playing one.

 

[briandavismurph]

Forgive me if I sound like a know-it-all.
Please learn to adjust the truss rod and string height on your instrument.
Paying someone else to set the instrument up to their taste is a losing proposition.

 

[Backwards]

Forgive me if I sound like a know-it-all.
Please learn to adjust the truss rod and string height on your instrument.
Paying someone else to set the instrument up to their taste is a losing proposition.

Not necessarily.
The excellent Luthier I'm working with took the time to first observe my playing before deciding how to set up my Bass. There's a reason that many professional musicians trust their instruments to the care of professional luthiers. And trust me, I'm certainly not a professional musician!

 

[DrBnz]

First, yes, any change in string brand/gauge is likely to require some setup tweak. You may get lucky, but at least be prepared for the possibility. Second, if a bass seems to play "stiff" when I try it out, the first thing I do is look at the string height at the first fret. I find most manufacturers tend not to cut their nut slots to the proper depth (or perhaps they just er on the side of caution). So if you're switching strings, change them first, but make sure the proper nut adjustment is part of your setup routine. You'd be amazed how many people skip this and it's the difference between a decent playing bass and a great playing one.

I'll second that. My Ultra Jazz couldn't handle Ti strings. The nut slots were cut too low.... played great if I stuffed a piece of thick paper under them. I wasn't prepared to replace a nut on a bass that I'm not even sure I like (yet). I changed the strings instead.

 

[Grinderman]

Forgive me if I sound like a know-it-all.
Please learn to adjust the truss rod and string height on your instrument.
Paying someone else to set the instrument up to their taste is a losing proposition.

I'm an advocate for as many players who can learn to DYI everything or as much as possible. I'm probably more naturally inclined to be a luthier, or at least a tech, than a musician but I think that in turn allows me to also be a better musician than I'd be otherwise. It's all a hobby to me but hobbies don't come with automatic hard skill ceilings just because someone chooses to keep on doing an activity of passion as a hobby.

Other than that, we don't even know if the OP's string nut is properly set up, besides level dressed frets, neck relief and bridge setup--saddle/string height and intonation.

 

[Grinderman]

I'll second that. My Ultra Jazz couldn't handle Ti strings. The nut slots were cut too low.... played great if I stuffed a piece of thick paper under them. I wasn't prepared to replace a nut on a bass that I'm not even sure I like (yet). I changed the strings instead.

Where the bottom of strings, regardless of brand and gauge, sit at the bottom of the slots and in relationship to the crown of the frets, on the Y axis, does not change.

If a change of type of strings, with corresponding change in how pull (lbs.) and how stiff or flexible, leads to buzz either the neck relief hasn't been correctly adjusted and or the slots were already imprudently deep.

If the nut was already slotted right, the only thing that may need to change are the slot widths, depending on how great the increase or decrease in string gauges. If the slots are already too wide or loose for whatever new sting set gauge then it's time for another nut.

 

[Zooberwerx]

I'll second that. My Ultra Jazz couldn't handle Ti strings. The nut slots were cut too low.... played great if I stuffed a piece of thick paper under them. I wasn't prepared to replace a nut on a bass that I'm not even sure I like (yet). I changed the strings instead.

I noticed that. Wonder if it has anything to do with the diminished winding diameter on the Jazz Rounds? In my case, clearance is at the low-end of the normal range. Passes the "ping" test but we're talking .001-.002" clearance when fretted at the 3rd. No need to replace the nut if on a budget provided it can be safely removed. I just glue a 0.5 mm shim on the bottom, trim with an xacto blade, and re-install. I usually run the augmentation back 'n forth like an eraser on some fine sandpaper to thin it. Usually brings it into spec without any significant filing of the slots. Beer can aluminum works, as well, but the resulting patch looks like hell IMO.

Riis

 

[DrBnz]

I'd agree, it was always very close with the factory strings, but they didn't buzz .... the Ti were so limp that they'd buzz. I could set em up high enough to stop. But that was too high. I just need a little stiffer string and walla... no buzz.