Double Bass Studying Upright Bass in College

[Ed Fuqua]

I'm primarily an electric bass player with some experience playing upright bass in school based groups, and I'm wondering what to do for college. The school I'm primarily looking at only takes upright, so I would either have to really get moving on my upright chops or audition on guitar, but who would do such a horrid thing? I certainly love playing upright bass, but I don't have the same knowledge/ technical facility as I do on electric bass. I'm wondering if I can get some information about y'all's experience with renting vs buying, transportation of the upright, types of bass construction (laminate, etc.), and just whether I should pursue upright bass or find a school that allows me to audition on electric bass. Any kind of knowledge will be immensely helpful.

I'm not understanding what your goals are here; are you looking for a degree in something else but want to access the music department to do some playing or are you pursuing a degree in music performance/composition/education/etc.?

 

[BassFalcon]

Musician's Institute (Hollywood, CA), is still in "business".
FYI.

I haven't read a copy of Bass Player Magazine in a while, lol. The print ads were the last I'd heard about them.

 

[Don Kasper]

I haven't read a copy of Bass Player Magazine in a while, lol. The print ads were the last I'd heard about them.

Use the Interwebs and go to their website.
They appear to be open for business.
Good Luck.

 

[May Cassidy]

I'm not understanding what your goals are here; are you looking for a degree in something else but want to access the music department to do some playing or are you pursuing a degree in music performance/composition/education/etc.?

I'm looking to get a degree in music. I primarily want to study composition, but my teachers are asking me to consider education.

 

[BassFalcon]

I'm looking to get a degree in music. I primarily want to study composition, but my teachers are asking me to consider education.

FYI it's very likely they are pushing you toward education because that's the "safest" option. A job in a school district with benefits and retirement and stability. A job in composition is much more risky and open ended, especially now that music software is so cheap and so many self publishing platforms exist. Who are you gonna sell your compositions to? Why would they buy them from you specifically instead of finding some track on sound cloud and tossing them some pocket change or "exposure". Video game scoring might be the most lucrative aspect of composition these days, but all the top studios already have a stable of composers they are using, how do you break in? It's more risky than punching a clock at a school. It all depends on what you want. Again, not trying to discourage you from anything, just trying to help you know what you're asking for in case you get it. I tried a career in music myself. It's hard. I got to a point when I realized that my real goals were to have a family and security and a home and that my teenage dreams of "making it" as a musician weren't what adult me really wanted. To achieve those goals adult me had was gonna take a lot more than what my music hustle could offer. This is life, there are no right answers or singular path. It's all just what you want out of life. What are your priorities, and what are resources to make your dreams come true. And if you make the wrong choice, career changes are possible. The only thing final is death. Try out composition if that's where your heart is. If it crashes and burns get a construction job and keep composing on the nights and weekends. Or get a construction job, keep composing, and take online classes to be an accountant or whatever. Do whatever you want, but the trick here is figuring out what you want.

 

[AGCurry]

I'm looking to get a degree in music. I primarily want to study composition, but my teachers are asking me to consider education.

Music education, or just education?

After echoing the above remarks of @BassFalcon , I'll say this:

All music education programs - in addition to providing teaching credentials - will include everything you need to compose. Neither music ed nor composition will provide the inspiration for composing, but the mechanics of it are not difficult to develop with what you will learn in either program.

I have to add that no college program in music will guarantee gainful employment in music. Schools of almost all types have not been kind to the arts in the past few decades, and employment as a composer or arranger is rare. BUT ... there are many good jobs of all kinds which require simply a baccalaureate degree - in anything. Life is longer, God willing, than you might think right now, and there will be opportunities to develop your talents in numerous pursuits. Best wishes in whatever you choose!

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Music education, or just education?

After echoing the above remarks of @BassFalcon , I'll say this:

All music education programs - in addition to teaching credentials - will include everything you need to compose. Neither music ed nor composition will provide the inspiration for composing, but the mechanics of it are not difficult to develop with what you will learn in either program.

I have to add that no college program in music will guarantee gainful employment in music. Schools of almost all types have not been kind to the arts in the past few decades, and employment as a composer or arranger is rare. BUT ... there are many good jobs of all kinds which require simply a baccalaureate degree - in anything. Life is longer, God willing, than you might think right now, and there will be opportunities to develop your talents in numerous pursuits. Best wishes in whatever you choose!

Totally agree. I wrote a blog about degree plan choices in music school a few years back. I'll link it here in case it might be of use.

 

[Don Hergert]

Totally agree. I wrote a blog about degree plan choices in music school a few years back. I'll link it here in case it might be of use.

"Intensive music degrees taken together with a second degree in a professional field"

Our band's fiddler completed a program like this one in college. She's finishing up her medical residency this year. She will always love music, and as her friends and bandmates, we value her musical education and background tremendously. But obviously, her career as a physician will be the one that pays the bills.

 

[Wasnex]

I wouldn't necessarily recommend pursuing music as a career. But I also don't necessary discourage anyone from taking music courses.

I wound up majoring in music indirectly. I had hoped to be an engineer and was working up the ladder of advanced math courses. I could do the math, but I did not really visualize what the formulas meant like some of the math "geniuses" I came across.

I think I was in my 2nd semester of calculus and had been squeeking by. I needed a good grade on the next exam to guarantee that I would pass the course. I put in the effort and had the highest score in the class.

The next exam was the final, and it was only a few days off. It was supposed to comprehensive, so I put in a lot of effort reviewing all of the material we had covered earlier in the semester. Turns out over 50% of the exam was on the material I had just aced. I still knew the process for the equations, but I could not remember all of the theorems needed to actually do all of the work. The required theorems covered the front and back of three pages, and unfortunately I don't seem to have a strong enough long-term memory for that sort of thing. I can memorize the required info for a sort time, but then it seems to fall out of my head.

All along I had been cherry picking the music courses I was most interested in, which included theory, ear training and class piano. I was generally near the top of the class in these courses. After struggling through multiple math courses I declared a music major. I spent a few weeks brushing up on my upright bass chops over the summer, and they awarded me a half scholarship, which amounted to about $250.

I never had any expectations that I would be a professional musician, but somehow it worked out. There was a lot of luck involved IMHO. My point is I took the music courses primarily because I wanted to understand music, and not for any sort of practical reasons. I figured eventually I would grow up and get a so-called real job. I had no interest in pursuing a music education degree.

So I would not necessarily discourage anyone from taking music classes, but I think it's really important to be honest with yourself and realistic with what those classes will likely be worth. You may stumble into a decent music job that suites you, and you may not. So hopefully the course you take are intrinsically valuable because they satisfy your curiosity.

I think I am fairly well suited to being a military musician. I get bored quickly doing the same thing over and over, so specializing in classical or commercial music does not suit me. My best attribute is probably my versatility. Although no one would claim I am a great player, people frequently described me as solid, regardless of the genre I am working in. Most military band members are expected to play classical and commercial music. Regardless of the genre, my skills were usually somewhere in the middle compared to the rest of the band. I was generally better than most of the classical players in commercial, and better than most of the commercial players in classical.

The more specialized musicians were considered very valuable in military bands, because they served prominently as featured soloist and served as examples of musical excellence. But they tend to be less content in military bands than I was. I think this is because their skills far exceed the lever necessary to do the job proficiently. A goal of this type of musician is generally continual challenge and improvement over their career. IMHO that is a lofty aspiration that few will achieve, and it seems frequently self-serving in support of a narcissistic personality. Almost everyone I worked with had a Bachelors, many had a Masters, and a few members of most bands had completed their Doctorate.

I worked with many fabulously talented musicians. Many of the best became so frustrated and disillusioned that they either quite music altogether, or they doubled down and pursued a higher-level degree. My perception is this satisfies the need for personal growth, but in many cases there is no long-range practical benefit. The person amasses a huge student debt essentially for self-gratification.

I wound up serving to my high year of tenure. Over the years there were good times and bad times. But overall, I had a lot of great experiences, and would have continued to serve if it were allowed.

 

[BassFalcon]

The military music program is a great recommendation, I'd also like to add the Cruise Ships. I was tempted, and have a buddy that did it for 8 years. It's tough. You play multiple styles like 10 hours a day and you have no real home, but on the upside there is a constant revolving door of international potential mates, and very cheap booze. I suppose If those are pros or cons depends on you.

 

[Don Hergert]

... Cruise Ships ...

Before Covid, my wife and I and our band frequented "less pricey" cruises in the waters of the left coast... Most of these trips were bluegrass cruise events, sort of mini-festivals with 50 to 100 bluegrass folks from somewhat random parts of the continent. Our band was frequently part of the "entertainment" for these bluegrass events, but not as cruise employees. That said, we got to know a number of the cruise employee musicians, often at first because they'd notice our instruments -- it's hard not to notice a double bass being loaded onto a cruise ship -- but also because we shared a love of music

For these "less pricey" cruises, the ship musicians we met were generally a friendly lot, but like most of the cruise employees they always seemed tired, running a tight schedule and working multiple different musical genre areas of the ship, frequently supplying entertainment nearly around the clock for various venues for weeks and sometimes months at a time. They often reminded me of summer camp staff -- over worked, under fed, under slept, under paid and often just plain overused. Often they managed the sound equipment they were going to use for themselves, although some of the ship's larger venues had their own assigned sound people.

We occasionally joined a few cruise musicians for their sets, and occasionally they would join us for some of our sets or jams. They could tell we were serious at our music and loved it,while we could tell they were tired of their music and routine. Often they would join us during their breaks for larger spontaneous jams that would form on various decks on the ship and we could tell they were enjoying the musical freedom we shared.

As musically oriented passengers, our impression of the cruise-provided music was that it was almost always way too loud and crowded, and perhaps somewhat rag-tag. Mostly pop covers played and/or sung for passenger audiences that were pretty often over-supplied with alcohol and almost always over-supplied with food... Often the stereotypical cruisers; grandma and grandpa, but also sometimes the younger family getting away, and also sometimes the Leisure-Suite-Larry lounge lizard crowd. Since we often shared venues during off-hours with the ship's bar musical staff for scheduled jams and other event programming, we'd sometimes use ship sound equipment and sound people, so we'd get to know them too.

We always left the ship feeling like we were the lucky musicians; the music we performed was at sensitive volumes, largely spontaneous, songs done by our choice under little or no schedule pressure and it was generally the music we loved -- in stark contrast with the cruise provided music. While we could imagine ourselves as cruise-employee musicians, we really couldn't imagine enjoying it for long, and most of the time we felt sorry for the cruise musicians we met.

Covid has had a marked effect on all of the cruise ship lines as well as bluegrass events on them. For employees on cruises it has meant an increasing work load for fewer passengers with dramatically higher risk of getting sick for both employees and passengers. As older folks, my wife and I personally have not attended a cruise since late summer 2019, and we still don't feel comfortable about doing so; even before Covid I frequently caught the ship's endemic infection on each cruse by the 2nd or third day and had to spend at least a day in bed, so chances of me catching something worse now are high. We have concerns for all the staff, including the cruise musician friends we met.

 

[longfinger]

I'm primarily an electric bass player with some experience playing upright bass in school based groups, and I'm wondering what to do for college. The school I'm primarily looking at only takes upright, so I would either have to really get moving on my upright chops or audition on guitar, but who would do such a horrid thing? I certainly love playing upright bass, but I don't have the same knowledge/ technical facility as I do on electric bass. I'm wondering if I can get some information about y'all's experience with renting vs buying, transportation of the upright, types of bass construction (laminate, etc.), and just whether I should pursue upright bass or find a school that allows me to audition on electric bass. Any kind of knowledge will be immensely helpful.

What are your goals? What kind of music do you want to play? What motivates you?

 

[Ed Fuqua]

I'm looking to get a degree in music. I primarily want to study composition, but my teachers are asking me to consider education.

Music composition, you're going to want to learn piano, education, you're going to spend some time on reeds, brass, and percussion instruments (since the primary employment goal is becoming a band director). The ONLY reason to stick adamantly to a program that offers bass guitar as primary instrument is to pursue a PERFORMANCE degree. And, as Jeff Berlin has pointed out ad nauseum, if what you want to do is play pop(ular) music, just get a bunch of records and start taking stuff off of those.
The places that teach pop music bass don't tend to be be degree programs, they tend to be certificate programs. The places that offer performance degrees tend to offer two general tracks; classical or jazz. And, yes, if you want to pursue a performance degree in the jazz track, you will need to address the double bass in a pretty significant way.

 

[Alexis Duntov]

Music composition, you're going to want to learn piano, education, you're going to spend some time on reeds, brass, and percussion instruments (since the primary employment goal is becoming a band director). The ONLY reason to stick adamantly to a program that offers bass guitar as primary instrument is to pursue a PERFORMANCE degree. And, as Jeff Berlin has pointed out ad nauseum, if what you want to do is play pop(ular) music, just get a bunch of records and start taking stuff off of those.
The places that teach pop music bass don't tend to be be degree programs, they tend to be certificate programs. The places that offer performance degrees tend to offer two general tracks; classical or jazz. And, yes, if you want to pursue a performance degree in the jazz track, you will need to address the double bass in a pretty significant way.

Just to point out that The School of Jazz and Contemporary Music at the New School in NYC does offer BA and BFA in which bass guitar can be your primary instrument. You would have to learn to play a fair amount of Jazz but that's just how they teach music, but there are fusion, pop, Motown ensembles, etc. You can do the whole degree on electric bass. However, many fewer ensemble opportunities, and it's primarily a place where Jazz cats go and they want to play with upright players. Also, it's an expensive school and city. But the school is comparatively generous with scholarships and thus attracts players who have gotten into more competitive (not better) schools. I'm an older student starting my final year next month. Great program.

 

[dan1952]

Studied upright for 2 years at Ball State University in Muncie. I had bought an upright and decided to actually learn something about it. Dr. Phillip Allbright was always on me about joing the school orchestra, but I didn't feel like I was ready for that. However, I did get through the Simandl method, and I've never quit using those finger positions, etc., even on electric bass.

 

[Sam Sherry]

I'd also like to add the Cruise Ships. . . It's tough. You play multiple styles like 10 hours a day and you have no real home, but on the upside there is a constant revolving door of international potential mates, and very cheap booze. I suppose If those are pros or cons depends on you.

For these "less pricey" cruises, the ship musicians we met were generally a friendly lot, but like most of the cruise employees they always seemed tired, running a tight schedule and working multiple different musical genre areas of the ship, frequently supplying entertainment nearly around the clock for various venues for weeks and sometimes months at a time. They often reminded me of summer camp staff -- over worked, under fed, under slept, under paid and often just plain overused. . .

We always left the ship feeling like we were the lucky musicians; the music we performed was at sensitive volumes, largely spontaneous, songs done by our choice under little or no schedule pressure and it was generally the music we loved -- in stark contrast with the cruise provided music. While we could imagine ourselves as cruise-employee musicians, we really couldn't imagine enjoying it for long . . .

In 1985-86 I spent the college winter break subbing on the SS Norway. At that time the Norway was the biggest cruise boat afloat (although by now it's probably medium-sized). That meant there were 32 musicians on staff and people specialized. There was The Variety Show band, playing every day to the same broken click-track. There was a rock cover band. There was a disco cover band. There were at least two guys who could cover a solo piano-lounge gig.

Since there was a DB on the boat and none of the other guys played it I became "the jazz guy" and that was a decent gig. I played piano trios and the big band, and the big band backed up The Featured Artiste.
> A week with Sergio Franchi ("O Solo Mio.")
> A week with Florence Henderson ("Honey, I'm Home!")
> Two weeks with Petula Clark. (Ms. Clark had a great book with a lot more hits than you think. She was pleasant, classy and a professional musician.)
And recall, that was the King Gig for a jazz-focused bassist.

It was a great opportunity to earn some money, get tan and complete my two college undergraduate theses ("The West German Social Democrat Party 1950-1965" and "Constituent Influence on the Connecticut General Assembly" since you ask). I will never forget Magen's Bay on St. Thomas, or the deep poverty of St. Thomas when I took the wrong bus going to the beach.

If you're someone who really likes hotel living and a scheduled lifestyle you can definitely build some savings playing on a boat. I'm not that person.

 

[Matt Ides]

My $.02. Rent a bass and take some lessons on upright.

I didn't start playing upright until I was 17 and auditioned for music school on electric. The programs I wanted to attend the most wanted you to play upright so I was competing with upright players on electric. One well know bassists in Chicago when I auditioned commented "that was great but can you play that on the upright". I ended up doing 2 years of music school at junior college playing upright in orchestra, jazz, and chamber ensembles which privately studying with a great classical teacher. I learned a lot in those 2 years but also realized the slug of practice and rehearsal was way too much in addition to regular studies so ended up and transferring to another school with a different major. Looking back I am glad I didn't attend a music school only but wouldn't be the player I am today without those years of intense study and practice.

Take this all as you will since I am older and this was a few decades ago. If your jam is electric find a school and teacher that want you to be your best at electric. I will admit I fell in love with the upright bass and that has been my main instrument since I picked it up at 17.

 

[james condino]

.....My dad was listening to BB King.....

Say that loud & proud and celebrate it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bruce Calin]

Reading this post makes me feel really old and really lucky. I actually made my living, owned property, and raised a family solely through playing music. I had no academic training in music aside from piano lessons and had played clarinet in my school band until I picked up the bass essentially on a whim. I was able to read music and liked different styles so bass gave me a lot of playing opportunities and I never looked back. I was never what I considered one of the best players but was more what the old "at liberty" ads in the Int'l Musician would call "sober and reliable". I never regretted my choice of career, but I also believe that it would be impossible now. I developed every skill I could, which helped a lot, and enjoyed learning and playing different styles. The key was that there were playing opportunities that paid well enough and were plentiful enough that I was never really concerned about the amount of work available. I didn't do any teaching during this period because playing kept me busy enough. I've gotten into teaching only in the last few years and really enjoy it , but I don't count on it to make a living and do it mainly to give back and promote the bass.
My feeling now is that the smart thing to do is get what training you need to make a living and play on the side or semi-professionally. Maybe it always was, but I never thought that way because I didn't have to. I feel bad for people who get disenchanted with a career in music performance because I always enjoyed going out and playing(and still do). I just don't know if it's possible to do it now. I'd love to have somebody prove me wrong. The full-time orchestra jobs still can, but that's a whole different path.

 

[Bruce Calin]

Question for wasnex: When did the army quit the tuba requirement for bandsman? That was one of the reasons I didn't seriously consider the army band after auditioning. I could play some tuba but the thought of being stuck in post band somewhere playing tuba made my elitist self say "No, thanks".