Because in my experience, musicians just wanna "rock" and they don't care about the value of their time. This is why I stopped gigging years ago. I'm not willing to invest hours of my time to get handed $100 at the end of the night.
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Sub work - how are you guys pricing your time?
- Thread starter mikeowen17
- Start date
In my case, I still love doing it, but I have way less love these days.
I don't need to make the money so it's all about how they look after me.
Great hang, maybe
Great band, very interested.
Ridiculous money, lets talk.
Standard fees but band not upto it... no, although I took one recently for a friend.
Now I'm trying not to have to a rehearsal...because the band is tight, right???
I'm pretty sure what I will find at rehearsal and I don't want to go into the gig dreading it.
Because for most of us gigging is a hobby and not a job. When it's fun (and rewarding and challenging) then we don't calculate dollars per hour. Considering the fact that my other hobbies pay nothing at all, my music income is a nice bonus.
Just because it's fun doesn't mean I'll do it for free. My $100 minimum is poor from a pro's standpoint, but some play for less, and those $100-plus chunks add up over 60+ gigs per year.
I need to emphasize that it MUST be fun. Meaning: talented bandmates with great attitudes (no drama!) and the ability to do homework, setlists full of music that I enjoy (or don't hate), paying gigs, and rehearsals only when absolutely necessary. As an old/experienced guy in my circuit I can simply make myself unavailable for a band I don't enjoy (rare), which allows me to spend more time with the bands I do enjoy.
I've never known covers bands to pay less than originals bands..........if that's what you're saying...........
In my neck of the woods, playing originals is the equivalent of shouting "FIRE!" - because everyone bolts. Covers pay, and are easy to prepare without running rehearsals, provided your bandmates are seasoned players. As fun as building originals are as a player, I want the audience to be interested enough to stick around. ...And buy drinks, so I can get paid!
I have 2 original projects
1 is a sub. Way too much work for the money, $70...plus I've had a sit through with the bass player I'm subbing for and the BL 'cried' off but now wants a band rehearsal.
Why don't the BL/writers subsidise this 'vanity' project?
And Vanity project number 2 I've pulled out on because I never got a session fee, writing credits..not actually worth squat if nothing sells, and they are lobbying gigs I can get with a decent covers band if I wanted those cheaper rates. I think the gigs pay $400-450 for the band.
And the bands are not that exciting to play with either.
For 4 hrs playing over a weekend, cover band got $1700 and far far better band to boot.
1 is a sub. Way too much work for the money, $70...plus I've had a sit through with the bass player I'm subbing for and the BL 'cried' off but now wants a band rehearsal.
Why don't the BL/writers subsidise this 'vanity' project?
And Vanity project number 2 I've pulled out on because I never got a session fee, writing credits..not actually worth squat if nothing sells, and they are lobbying gigs I can get with a decent covers band if I wanted those cheaper rates. I think the gigs pay $400-450 for the band.
And the bands are not that exciting to play with either.
For 4 hrs playing over a weekend, cover band got $1700 and far far better band to boot.
Thanks for the answer. But what I mean is that given rates for covers work are low, why not just use that time to write originals with other musicians? The pay rates seem too low either way to determine what band I’d play in. Tending the bar would pay more than either option. However I acknowledge many prefer playing covers all else being equal. I’m just genuinely curious why.
Because the writing is better.
I've worked with a few people who write their songs and its not easy to write a great song, cool groove etc.
Not only does the song need to be good, the playing needs to be good...its far far easier to copy which is what the majority of bands do note for note.
So you pull that off once is quite a thing...do it multiple times is domething else.
And lets not kid ourselves, a lot of original stuff is not that listenable in the first place otherwise, the product would generate more money and you wouldn't be playing for free or virtually nothing.
I've worked with a few people who write their songs and its not easy to write a great song, cool groove etc.
Not only does the song need to be good, the playing needs to be good...its far far easier to copy which is what the majority of bands do note for note.
So you pull that off once is quite a thing...do it multiple times is domething else.
And lets not kid ourselves, a lot of original stuff is not that listenable in the first place otherwise, the product would generate more money and you wouldn't be playing for free or virtually nothing.
I can understand some are better at writing music and others are better at learning a lot of hits fast and playing them competently. But as I’ve returned to music after a long break I notice many competent writers still prefer just to do covers. The city I live in used to have a lively music scene and community playing original music. Now it’s covers.
I'm confused! What do you consider low for covers work? Covers bands I've been in average $200-$300 per man in my experience. I've made more and I've made less. Are you saying that's a 'LOW' rate?? I'm genuinely confused! Last year, my old cover band made $3000 per gig twice a month at a local Casino. Secondly, we don't play in bars. Mostly outdoor events and corporate events.
3k USD per gig certainly changes the equation. But it seems to you might earning at the upper end of the spectrum when it comes to covers gigs.
It's interesting how $100 for three sets seems to be a widely quoted figure. I'll share my experiences. Where I am in So. Delaware I'm also paid $100 for three sets in bars/clubs on bass/vocals playing rock/blues. I only do this for my old band of friends when they are in town and need a fill in bassist. Frankly, I am intrigued so many folks will perform for that amount, but it seems widespread. I get paid $100-125 for an hour's set with my classical and singer/songwriter trios and Celtic duo (on cello/bass/vocals) in private communities. And I pull $200 for 30-45min solo cello wedding prelude programs.
Upper end? Not quite. There are bands here making more than that on a regular basis. The Hampton Roads area of Virginia is thriving music wise. Solid bands in NYC make that easily. Most aren't playing in bars though. Just curious....where are you located?
I’m in New Zealand. Certainly nobody playing covers for the money here.
Ok, that makes sense. Playing covers, especially a really good band, can be pretty lucrative here in the states. Some bands make $10k-$15k. A local band here has played for presidents.
I did a sub show recently for a band I was in briefly (on drums) and left because they wanted regular rehearsals and were 1 hour 45 minutes away. The BL understood I wouldn’t do it without signifiant $ and offered $50/rehearsal (minimum 4) and $250 a gig for two gigs. Felt reasonable, although the first gig got cancelled so a lot of that work got unpaid.
By contrast I agreed to sub for a friend’s band because I was doing a favor for him. 2 sets of 80’s songs, almost all I had heard before, maybe knew about half on bass already. Only walked away with $100, but helped out a friend, no rehearsals, and the gig was within an hour and I was home before 11.
These days, fill ins need to pay at least $200 for a standard gig or I’m not taking it. Weddings and privates should be paying more. There are exceptions. If it’s drums and I know most of the tunes I can jump on with little work - but I’m not doing any rehearsals. I find it incredible that bands rehearse 2-4 times for one gig that pays $100. If you’re a hobbyist, sure. But I do this full time. I’d rather spend my time with my family than spend 15 hours for $100.
By contrast I agreed to sub for a friend’s band because I was doing a favor for him. 2 sets of 80’s songs, almost all I had heard before, maybe knew about half on bass already. Only walked away with $100, but helped out a friend, no rehearsals, and the gig was within an hour and I was home before 11.
These days, fill ins need to pay at least $200 for a standard gig or I’m not taking it. Weddings and privates should be paying more. There are exceptions. If it’s drums and I know most of the tunes I can jump on with little work - but I’m not doing any rehearsals. I find it incredible that bands rehearse 2-4 times for one gig that pays $100. If you’re a hobbyist, sure. But I do this full time. I’d rather spend my time with my family than spend 15 hours for $100.
If I'm not a regular member of the band/project, then ..
1. All rehearsals must be paid. Period.
2. There must be charts for anything specific to the band, or any material outside of the usual lexicon of the genre (for me, that's jazz).
3. When there are no charts, any necessary transcribing I do must be paid.
4. The gig itself must pay at least a minimum Union wage, and either be a good musical experience or with good fun people (preferably both). Exceptionally high paying gigs occasionally entice me to abandon both if necessary, but thankfully that hasn't been a problem in recent history.
1. All rehearsals must be paid. Period.
2. There must be charts for anything specific to the band, or any material outside of the usual lexicon of the genre (for me, that's jazz).
3. When there are no charts, any necessary transcribing I do must be paid.
4. The gig itself must pay at least a minimum Union wage, and either be a good musical experience or with good fun people (preferably both). Exceptionally high paying gigs occasionally entice me to abandon both if necessary, but thankfully that hasn't been a problem in recent history.
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