Sub work - how are you guys pricing your time?

[mikeowen17]

I’ve been taking on more sub work lately and have noticed a massive range when it comes to how much a band is willing to pay you to sub vs. how much work it takes to get their set down.

So my question to you all is how you price your time when there is a fairly steep ask in terms of material to be learned? Especially when that material is either originals or covers that you can’t readily use in other gigs (eg real deep cuts of lesser known bands)

Some recent examples that I have been offered have included
1/ 34 song tribute band set (including some deep deep cuts I’ve never heard before), asking 2 rehearsals before the gig - $100
2/ 9 originals (no charts available so I’d need to transcribe) and 19 (fairly standard) covers, asking for 1 rehearsal - $100
3/ 60 song set for popular event band (standard covers), 3 consecutive gigs, no rehearsal needed - $250 per show ($750 total)

For me, only the 3rd one makes sense - since by the time I’d put the work in to learn and rehearse the other shows I’d probably end up making single digits per hour! (Note #2 and #3 would likely result in future work - #1 would not)

In my mind I’ve set a fee range depending on how much charting I’d have to do and how many rehearsals they want from me - but I worry I’d price myself out of the market if everyone else is willing to do 20 hours of work for $100.

What do you guys do?

 

[shadven]

I sub in a Tom Petty tribute band (touring/ hotels/rv/ away from home) and I get a minimum of $500 per show 5 or 6 shows a week. But, I’m away from home and mostly pay for my own food. I usually have to share a hotel room (usually a nice hotel). They pay for all transport, often fly-in. But, all super nice guys, no excess drinking/drugs. No rehearsals, but I had really learn the show and ready to perform, look the part and ham it up on stage.
I also sub occasionally for a Johnny Cash Tribute (local) @ $250 and up per show. No rehearsal, easy and I know the show. I occasionally get an emergency call from someone, and I won’t do it for less than $200. It takes a lot of work to learn the material and be prepared “enough” to not feel embarrassed on stage. I hate winging it, and I’m not great on loud stages… it sounds like a wall of noise and I can’t tell if it’s an E or an A chord unless I look at their hands.

 

[Lo-E]

I’m glad you started this thread as I’m curious about this, too.

A couple of weeks ago I was asked to sub for a tribute band, which would have involved learning 30 songs (I’ve only ever played one song by that band) and driving about 1-1/2 hours each way to the gig.

I inquired about the fee but, before they replied, someone else they reached out to accepted the gig.

I wasn’t heartbroken about not getting the gig (I didn’t really want to do it but I would have considered it only because I have several friends in the band) but it did leave me wondering how much, or how little, I should have been willing to accept given the amount of work I would have needed to put in.

 

[ItsmeSantiago]

I’d only take the third one. At this point in time I’m only available as a B roster player and even then I won’t be a backup unless I know I’ll get consistent calls. I’m a backup for one guy and he booked me for four sets this summer at 100 per. Familiar songs and he won’t change the set when he asks me to play.

Someone asking me to learn originals or a three hour set for a one off pays less than minimum wage and I don’t love any set list enough for those wages.

 

[Parzival]

#1 and #2 don't make sense. #3 is a no brainer if you already know a lot of the covers.

 

[mikeowen17]

I’m glad you started this thread as I’m curious about this, too.

A couple of weeks ago I was asked to sub for a tribute band, which would have involved learning 30 songs (I’ve only ever played one song by that band) and driving about 1-1/2 hours each way to the gig.

I inquired about the fee but, before they replied, someone else they reached out to accepted the gig.

I wasn’t heartbroken about not getting the gig (I didn’t really want to do it but I would have considered it only because I have several friends in the band) but it did leave me wondering how much, or how little, I should have been willing to accept given the amount of work I would have needed to put in.

This sounds exactly like the situation I was in with gig #1 - the band leader was a former band mate of mine and we are on good terms. I wanted to do it as a favor to them - but I knew maybe 2 of the over 30 songs on the set. Realistically it was going to be maybe 50 hours work, when you factored the learning (to tribute band standards), the rehearsals, the travel and the gig itself!

Thats not to say I won’t take a $100 gig to help a friend - but this was a monumental workload!

 

[jimmydean]

Gig minimum is $100.00 and you hope the patrons fill the tip jar by the end of the night to get your equal share .

 

[mdogs]

I’ve been taking on more sub work lately and have noticed a massive range when it comes to how much a band is willing to pay you to sub vs. how much work it takes to get their set down.

So my question to you all is how you price your time when there is a fairly steep ask in terms of material to be learned? Especially when that material is either originals or covers that you can’t readily use in other gigs (eg real deep cuts of lesser known bands)

Some recent examples that I have been offered have included
1/ 34 song tribute band set (including some deep deep cuts I’ve never heard before), asking 2 rehearsals before the gig - $100
2/ 9 originals (no charts available so I’d need to transcribe) and 19 (fairly standard) covers, asking for 1 rehearsal - $100
3/ 60 song set for popular event band (standard covers), 3 consecutive gigs, no rehearsal needed - $250 per show ($750 total)

For me, only the 3rd one makes sense - since by the time I’d put the work in to learn and rehearse the other shows I’d probably end up making single digits per hour! (Note #2 and #3 would likely result in future work - #1 would not)

In my mind I’ve set a fee range depending on how much charting I’d have to do and how many rehearsals they want from me - but I worry I’d price myself out of the market if everyone else is willing to do 20 hours of work for $100.

What do you guys do?

This is exactly why I stopped subbing, too many bands think that a sub should be paid at the same rate as the rest of the band, including bands that thought I should do it for free if they weren’t being paid. I am fairly certain that I never took a job where the band dictated the amount I would make, unless of course their offer was higher than my rate. It has to be worth it to me, I couldn’t care less if they thought it was too much.

 

[Reedt2000]

3rd one I'd do. Compensation is ok for what it is, but could lead to more work so once tunes are learned there's not much more work to do for future subbing.

The first two I'd only really consider for good friends where it's more a favor to them than something that benefits me.

 

[billiard]

$1 / per mile I have to travel to and from the job, if I already know the material, plus gas and $100 bucks at least. Less than 100 miles, 200 bucks to friends. 300 if I don't know you.
400 plus if I have to learn material the way they want it.

 

[billiard]

This sounds exactly like the situation I was in with gig #1 - the band leader was a former band mate of mine and we are on good terms. I wanted to do it as a favor to them - but I knew maybe 2 of the over 30 songs on the set. Realistically it was going to be maybe 50 hours work, when you factored the learning (to tribute band standards), the rehearsals, the travel and the gig itself!

Thats not to say I won’t take a $100 gig to help a friend - but this was a monumental workload!

Welcome to Broadway in Nashville. A full week of learning to do a 4 hour gig to pay 30 for parking.....

 

[jjk2007]

Sounds like OP is on the right track…#3 for sure. I have done some subbing here in Austin and I’ve had offers in the $100 - $300 range for a typical 3 hour gig. I’ve had setlists that I know most of the songs and set lists that I know I’ll need to do some homework. I usually try to have a bass in hand a few nights of the week so learning somebody’s set doesn’t bother me. I just add it to the arsenal of songs in the library. If they want a rehearsal, that’s another story as additional travel/time is needed. I recently talked to a country guy here who stays somewhat busy and he was offering $100 for an hour opening slot for a bigger name Texas artist. I would have had to drive 2 hours each way and he wanted a call time of 1pm with sound check etc and a 7pm performance time. I politely declined. That said, do what’s best for you!

 

[EricOnTheBass]

Subbing isn’t worth it for me unless it’s to play songs I already know. The bands that I get called by can’t afford to pay more than an equal share of the gig money. I will make an exception if it is a band that I’d like to be asked to join someday. Sometimes a sub is called in because the current player has been flaky, and doing a good job could lead to a permanent spot.

 

[Fuzzbass]

Context: I'm a weekend warrior, mainly with bar bands, and not one of the pro subs in my area who can command a proper rate. That said, I'm fairly well known in my network, and get 60+ gigs per year with 8 to 10 different bands, and this often includes one-and-done sub gigs.

With all that in mind: if not much travel or homework is involved, and zero rehearsals, then I'm fine with getting an equal share as long as it's at least $100.


Extenuating circumstances:

• I will agree to a rehearsal (possibly more) if I'm getting multiple gigs from the band. Example: I platoon with a couple/few other bassists in one of my busier bands: the BL gets 50+ gigs per year, and I play at least 20 of them. I've rehearsed with them three times in the four years I've been gigging with them simply because they get me so much work.
• I occasionally play for less than $100: best example is with an all-original blues/rock/funk band for whom I'm the #1 bassist. Despite being all original, they gig fairly steadily, and some gigs pay $200 each (it's a power trio). So when the BL gets a festival gig that's low pay but high profile, I will settle for $50 given the quality and quantity of the other gigs he gives me. The BL is grateful, especially because that $50 often comes out of his own pocket.
• I might also take less than $100 if it's a very-short-notice sub gig (close by and easy) that plugs a hole in my calendar. My full-time-pro guitarist brother calls this "found money".

Again, I'm just a bar band guy and rarely make more than $200. But I do try to limit/eliminate rehearsals, and only go below $100 when there's enough karma to justify it.

 

[MDBass]

I’ve been taking on more sub work lately and have noticed a massive range when it comes to how much a band is willing to pay you to sub vs. how much work it takes to get their set down.

So my question to you all is how you price your time when there is a fairly steep ask in terms of material to be learned? Especially when that material is either originals or covers that you can’t readily use in other gigs (eg real deep cuts of lesser known bands)

Some recent examples that I have been offered have included
1/ 34 song tribute band set (including some deep deep cuts I’ve never heard before), asking 2 rehearsals before the gig - $100
2/ 9 originals (no charts available so I’d need to transcribe) and 19 (fairly standard) covers, asking for 1 rehearsal - $100
3/ 60 song set for popular event band (standard covers), 3 consecutive gigs, no rehearsal needed - $250 per show ($750 total)

For me, only the 3rd one makes sense - since by the time I’d put the work in to learn and rehearse the other shows I’d probably end up making single digits per hour! (Note #2 and #3 would likely result in future work - #1 would not)

In my mind I’ve set a fee range depending on how much charting I’d have to do and how many rehearsals they want from me - but I worry I’d price myself out of the market if everyone else is willing to do 20 hours of work for $100.

What do you guys do?

I wouldn't worry about pricing myself out of any "market" for work that literally pays <$5 an hour.

The first two offers are comical: even for a 30min set of originals, anyone asking for a sub who wants two rehearsals before the gig and is only willing to pay $100 total is delusional.

 

[PBassAcidJazz]

I’ve been taking on more sub work lately and have noticed a massive range when it comes to how much a band is willing to pay you to sub vs. how much work it takes to get their set down.

So my question to you all is how you price your time when there is a fairly steep ask in terms of material to be learned? Especially when that material is either originals or covers that you can’t readily use in other gigs (eg real deep cuts of lesser known bands)

Some recent examples that I have been offered have included
1/ 34 song tribute band set (including some deep deep cuts I’ve never heard before), asking 2 rehearsals before the gig - $100
2/ 9 originals (no charts available so I’d need to transcribe) and 19 (fairly standard) covers, asking for 1 rehearsal - $100
3/ 60 song set for popular event band (standard covers), 3 consecutive gigs, no rehearsal needed - $250 per show ($750 total)

For me, only the 3rd one makes sense - since by the time I’d put the work in to learn and rehearse the other shows I’d probably end up making single digits per hour! (Note #2 and #3 would likely result in future work - #1 would not)

In my mind I’ve set a fee range depending on how much charting I’d have to do and how many rehearsals they want from me - but I worry I’d price myself out of the market if everyone else is willing to do 20 hours of work for $100.

What do you guys do?

I’m curious. Why do players take on covers work given the rates are so low?

 

[Pings Bass]

I’m curious. Why do players take on covers work given the rates are so low?

you have to really enjoy playing whatever material it is, and the company of the other players. Otherwise it just doesn't make sense. I've never played in a cover band so I don't claim to understand the mindset.

 

[sean_on_bass]

essentially if i know a one off gig will require too much prep work i will consider declining depending on the pay. if the setlist is huge and i don't know most of the tunes, it might just not be the gig for me. i do sometimes take gigs with alot of prep though knowing i will grow as a musician, so it's a balance.

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

No way I'd take the option 1 or 2.

 

[DWBass]

I try very hard to stick to my wheelhouse music wise. I am not trying to learn a crapload of music in a short time. I DO NOT take bar gigs because I know they don't pay well. No $50-$75 bar gigs for me. Been there done that. I just did a gig at an event that paid $200 plus got an extra $25 from tips. I just resigned from a band where we were usually getting $300 each (was a large band). It just recently went down to $200 each. Not happy. The wheels were falling off that band anyway. Bottom line, with MY experience, I'm not playing for less than $200 for a 2 hour set. If it's something local with zero travel, I may go a little lower if the budget doesn't allow.

Lastly, I don't think I'm a sub anymore. I think I'm in the band now. LOL We'll see.