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Subbing For Free???

#83
JohnMCA72 said:
Even then, some "charity" events have substantial budgets for entertainment. Personally, my single best-paying gig every year is to run sound at a charity event. Staging, sound, lights, fencing, security, medics, porta-potties, dumpsters, etc. all get paid for. The suppliers of those products & services would laugh if they were asked to provide them gratis - & quickly go broke if they actually did. Yet the primary providers of the entertainment that contributes to the draw, that gets people to show up & drop their money in the buckets, are expected to donate?

Personally, I have enough respect for myself & my services that I expect to be paid more than the porta-potties.
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Ive been preaching this for years:bawl: its like talking to a wall of puppies. All they wanna do is play, and cock their heads sideways when someone mentions money:help: if i were king of the world for a day, every instrument would come with a pamphlet on the basics of business. Nobody would read it, but id feel better knowing the information is out there:D
 
#84
LiquidMidnight said:
+1

The approach to using sub work to get a steady gig is a bit backwards. You get sub work by having a good reputation. You get a good reputation by being established and having a proven track record. Best way to get that proven track record? Play in an established band. Subbing is something that requires a lot of skill to do well, and unless I'm up against the wall, I'm not going to hire an unproven sub that nobody's heard of.
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Backwards or not, they gave him the gig, and it sounds like he did a good job, so he just took a small step towards establishing himself. I'm not sure exactly how old the OP is, but when I was was starting out, I did anything and everything to put myself out there and build a good reputation amongst other musicians. If it was a good opportunity, I didn't give a stuff about money. At the very least, the OP has played with 4 or 5 musicians who he will very likely cross paths with again. There may have been another few in the audience - that's worth a few hours of his life in the long run, no doubt about it.
 
#85
I'd do it to keep my word, but I would make sure they knew I was aware they were getting paid and I wasn't(in a nice way). I would also make it clear it was a one time thing so as not to get a reputation as the town "free bassist". Of course this somewhat depends on your skill/reputation as well. For me this is a total hobby and whatever money I make gigging is used for bass equipment, other hobbies, etc...If part of your real income comes from gigging and you are even semi-pro, that's a whole different thing.
 
#86
That's a b.s. deal. You agreed to play for no pay on the understanding that the gig did not pay. You were mislead, plain and simple. If there's one guy in the band who should get paid it's the sub. As I see it you're setting yourself up as a sucker and that's not going to get you a whole lot of respect.

Edit: people here talking about "keeping your word" - that's ridiculous. The OPs word was given based on lies he was told regarding pay. He's fully entitled to change his stance now that he knows the gig does pay. A little backbone here would go a long way. :hmm:
 
#87
I made that MISTAKE once in helping a friend out. His bass player was going to be late coming from another gig so I played the first half of a two gig set. I didin't get paid but my friend gave me gas money. After thinking about it I feel like they took advantage of me and I should have gotten half of the bass players cut. The bass player I subbed for didn't even offer me anything. If they ever call me again asking for help, I'm going to say I'm working that night. I feel like I should have stayed home and feel like a sucker but you know how you act when you're trying to help a friend out. No more Tommy Tucker here!!!
 
#89
MarkMgibson said:
You guys aren't keeping up. The OP said the band did NOT get paid - the email thing had nothing to do with that gig.
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OP Here - Exactly right! Again, I did a short gig, close to home, easy load in and out, made a lot of new contacts, had a positive experience, expect some of the guys will call me again for various gigs as the band also does paying gigs. I do not have any regrets about doing the gig, I just do not want to make a habit of unpaid gigs.

As one of my pro bass teachers once said (more or less) -- yes, will do a free gig if I am available at the time, if it is close to home, and if there are going to be good players there.
 
#92
This is weird. With my bands, when I hire a sub, I make sure he/she gets paid the most amount of dough. Of course, I only hire pros who can do the gig without any problems. All in all, fewer problems for me for only a couple of bucks out of my pocket.
 
#93
The problem with playing for free is two fold:

1) You present yourself as somebody who isn't good enough to deserve paying - immediately reducing your credibility.

2) You will represent such good value to bands who need a sub that you will get artifically good bookings and comments. If I charge a band £100 for a night's work (still pretty small beeer) and they rebook me then I know they think I am at least worth that much. How will you gauge your success playing for free?

The other bum steer on all of this is when people say you can benefit from playing with bigger, more professional acts when you offer your services for free. No professional outfit I have been anywhere near would expect somebody to play for free unless it was an audition.

If you want to be taken seriously, name your price. If that price is zero expect to be treated as a dreamer who isn't confident that they can actually play. Keep the freebies exclusively reserved for charity, church or other events where you genuinely want to offer your services gratis.
 
#94
bass81800 said:
OK, I accepted the gig, so I am doing it. The bass player called me, not the band leader. Lack of pay has nothing to do with the band leader or the band that will be at the gig. No prep involved, reading out of their books, know a lot of the rep already, short drive, and hoping to get on the band's sub list by doing a good job. Just a local restaurant gig, doubt if it is much pay anyway. Found out about pay because the band leader sent an email to everyone about checks. So, really, that does not preclude one of the checks being for me.
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Edit- missed the post earlier that the gig has been played for a tip jar. I'll leave my post here anyway.

It's possible that there's a mis-communication in all this and that you're not being taken advantage of. I'd reply to the band leaders email with the correct spelling of your name, address etc. It's possible the bass player thought it was a food gig when he called and the deal either changed, was mis-understood or was assumed. In any event, be sure to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Play the gig, enjoy the food, make some new connections and quietly evaluate the situation for next time. No need to make a fuss over a couple bucks. Let us
know what you find out. Good luck.
 

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