You're right. I don't think there would be anything wrong with approaching it that way.
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Subbing For Free???
- Thread starter bass81800
- Start date
You're right. I don't think there would be anything wrong with approaching it that way.
Bassist4Eris
Frat-Pack Sympathizer
Are we talking 45 minutes of originals? 4 hours of covers?
If it's an originals gig, it is quite likely that the band thought the gig was to be a freebie, and later learned that a modest fee was to be paid. In such a case, I bet this thread is much ado about nothing, and the OP will get paid at the end of the night without saying a word. Maybe not, but in such a case I wouldn't do it a second time, and would make clear to the BL as to why.
If this is a covers gig, and the band either thought it was free, or simply lied to you, then I simply can't imagine this situation to be beneficial to you on any level. NO cover band should play for free, ever, except under the rarest of exceptions (maybe a charity gig for a cause you believe strongly in).
Originals bands are artistic ventures, and sometimes lose money. A cover band, IMO, should always be run as a business.
If it's an originals gig, it is quite likely that the band thought the gig was to be a freebie, and later learned that a modest fee was to be paid. In such a case, I bet this thread is much ado about nothing, and the OP will get paid at the end of the night without saying a word. Maybe not, but in such a case I wouldn't do it a second time, and would make clear to the BL as to why.
If this is a covers gig, and the band either thought it was free, or simply lied to you, then I simply can't imagine this situation to be beneficial to you on any level. NO cover band should play for free, ever, except under the rarest of exceptions (maybe a charity gig for a cause you believe strongly in).
Originals bands are artistic ventures, and sometimes lose money. A cover band, IMO, should always be run as a business.
It's a SUB gig. He's saving their bacon either way- the type of program should make no difference whatsoever.
OP? Chime in any time...
Being contentious won't get you anywhere. It is right to point out, in a non-accusatory way, that the original terms were negotiated under the presumption that the band would get paid only in food and drink. Let THEM come to the plate and do the right thing.
This is a marathon, not a sprint, and your association with these players could continue for years. Or not. Either way, fighting over small money is bad mojo. If they have any sense at all, they'll do the right thing. If they don't have any sense, they are people not likely to succeed in the business, and you will always have the upper hand over them.
Don't be the thing you yourself hate.
In the meantime, eat, drink and be merry at the gig. Above ALL else, play well.
Maybe you are correct. Didn't think of it like that. I guess that I believe in the good in people. Money comes into play
things could get cut throat especially in this economy.
It would appear that the bass player asking you to play might actually get paid instead of you, which kind of sucks
because you are the one working.
Since you found out that they were all getting paid, ask the band leader, does that include me?
If he says no, then you could tell him you don't play for free and walk. or ask him is he paying the rest of the band or keeping the money all to himself?
You know he is paying the band. Even if he wants to pull the "you are only here to sub" routine ask him "Am I playing your music, and even though I am a sub am I not part of your band tonight?" Then you deserve to be paid.
Or take the high road and say you will help them out this time but not to expect chairity in the future.
+1
And like the others have said, live and learn. You may have gotten played this time, but go play your
off. You never know who might be watching you. If they don't make it right after the gig, let your people know and make it harder for them to sucker someone else. Word of mouth spreads pretty quick. But on the brighter side, they could be auditioning you for a permanent spot in the band, using this to see how you react, so play it cool until after the dust settles.
I think the moral of the story is never accept sub work without the expectation of getting paid. As Two Fingers pointed out, the average sub gig is usually a lot of work on part of the sub, unless you're one of those cats with an insanely large repertoire or you're playing a bunch of 12-bar stuff all night that you can fake your way through. That's why I turn down most sub work I get offered: The amount of work I'm going to have to put in for one gig just isn't worth it to me. If you're going to offer me a month or two of solid work, then I'm interested.
For me, sub work is always work; rarely is it fun. I have to learn new material, and sometimes deal with players who may have certain quirks to their playing, such as maybe the rythmn guitarist sometimes changing chords a half a beat behind. If the hiring band is liberal with arrangement, that adds another level of complexity, since it means I have to in effect "learn a song twice." Not fun at all. The best sub situation I was ever a part of was when I moved out of the area for a few months; then I came back and subbed with my old band whenever my replacement couldn't make a gig. Aside from picking up a few tunes they learned in the interim, I already knew the repertoire, was familiar with the players, and could go in with little prep work and deliver a very solid performance. It was just like being in my old band again, except with the luxury of not having to deal with all of the BS that comes with being a band member.
For me, sub work is always work; rarely is it fun. I have to learn new material, and sometimes deal with players who may have certain quirks to their playing, such as maybe the rythmn guitarist sometimes changing chords a half a beat behind. If the hiring band is liberal with arrangement, that adds another level of complexity, since it means I have to in effect "learn a song twice." Not fun at all. The best sub situation I was ever a part of was when I moved out of the area for a few months; then I came back and subbed with my old band whenever my replacement couldn't make a gig. Aside from picking up a few tunes they learned in the interim, I already knew the repertoire, was familiar with the players, and could go in with little prep work and deliver a very solid performance. It was just like being in my old band again, except with the luxury of not having to deal with all of the BS that comes with being a band member.
OP back here. A lot of good responses. Thanks!
OK, I accepted the gig, so I am doing it. The bass player called me, not the band leader. Lack of pay has nothing to do with the band leader or the band that will be at the gig. No prep involved, reading out of their books, know a lot of the rep already, short drive, and hoping to get on the band's sub list by doing a good job. Just a local restaurant gig, doubt if it is much pay anyway. Found out about pay because the band leader sent an email to everyone about checks. So, really, that does not preclude one of the checks being for me. Gig is this week, so will let all of you know how this plays out. At worse, I meet new musicians, expand my network, play a gig, hand out some cards, do one, and one only freebie, and have a nice meal. At best, I get paid, get on the sub list, and get called again for another gig with that group or another group the other members are in.
OK, I accepted the gig, so I am doing it. The bass player called me, not the band leader. Lack of pay has nothing to do with the band leader or the band that will be at the gig. No prep involved, reading out of their books, know a lot of the rep already, short drive, and hoping to get on the band's sub list by doing a good job. Just a local restaurant gig, doubt if it is much pay anyway. Found out about pay because the band leader sent an email to everyone about checks. So, really, that does not preclude one of the checks being for me. Gig is this week, so will let all of you know how this plays out. At worse, I meet new musicians, expand my network, play a gig, hand out some cards, do one, and one only freebie, and have a nice meal. At best, I get paid, get on the sub list, and get called again for another gig with that group or another group the other members are in.
No, but it's a cardinal error when subbing to be coy about the terms; you shouldn't be passive about this. This can (and should) be a professional and friendly conversation. If he emailed about how to handle checks (mailing addresses, how to spell last names, that kind of thing?), email him back the requested info, and ask him to confirm the amount (unless he already sent out that info).
Part of being easy to work with as a sub is ironing out sources of potential trouble *before* they become drama.
Always confirm pay, gig address, load-in times and parking, downbeat and end times, dress requirements (if it's an event gig), songbook, and any special instructions. Before you agree, you want at least firm info on the pay, load-in to load-out times, some sense of the songbook, heads-up about any required rehearsals scheduled, and the address (at least a general location, so you can calculate the travel time involved). The rest you can get the week of the gig.
Passinwind
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Cool. I would do that gig in a heartbeat if the food and beer met my standards at all. Not over and over, but definitely once. My bet is that you'll get paid anyway.
Ric5
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I play for free. But I charge a lot to haul my equipment around, set it up, tear it down, and haul it back home.
Is it me ? It just doesn't seem like the business should be this complicated to get into. Even when starting out.
Subbing would not be be my way of establishing myself. I think there are easier ways of getting known.
And while this thread took many turns. I say none of us should be playing playing for free. Even if you like being taken advantage of, it's not professional or a good practice.
Blue
Subbing would not be be my way of establishing myself. I think there are easier ways of getting known.
And while this thread took many turns. I say none of us should be playing playing for free. Even if you like being taken advantage of, it's not professional or a good practice.
Blue
I agree with this, especially if it's a cover gig. Food and/or drinks are perks not pay. No pay = no play. IME the concept of exposure is laughable at best.
Maybe it is harder for guys starting out.
I was lucky, I'm a baby boomer. I grew up with the generation where every young kid on the block had a band in the garage or in the basement. And we evolved and grew from there.
It was the 60s we understood the history and culture of rock and roll and pop music and took it from there. I guess we were making a lot of the rules and protocol for playing in bars and clubs.
When I read about some of the nonsensical situations the older ages, reasons and influences many young bass players have today it's no wonder why some give up and settle for bedroom noodling.
Just my opinion guys, you don't have to agree.
Regards
Blue
I was lucky, I'm a baby boomer. I grew up with the generation where every young kid on the block had a band in the garage or in the basement. And we evolved and grew from there.
It was the 60s we understood the history and culture of rock and roll and pop music and took it from there. I guess we were making a lot of the rules and protocol for playing in bars and clubs.
When I read about some of the nonsensical situations the older ages, reasons and influences many young bass players have today it's no wonder why some give up and settle for bedroom noodling.
Just my opinion guys, you don't have to agree.
Regards
Blue
This. If they knew the gig was paid when they contacted you, they deliberately screwed you. The only "contacts" and "exposure" you're getting is with people that I would NEVER work with again, if this were the case. If they didn't know it was paid, and later found out it was, they should cut you in. Otherwise, no deal - you agreed under false pretenses and that's that.
No, it doesn't preclude it, but it doesn't establish it either. Don't leave it ambiguous. Write the BL back and say, "I was told this was an unpaid gig, but I see from your email that the players are getting checks. Will I be included?" Decide to play the gig or not based on the answer.
Contacts and exposure with people who are out to screw you are less than worthless.
I agree. You were led to believe you were doing them or your friend a favor by performing for free. Then you find that it is a paying gig? It's up to you but I would ask to be paid your share of the fee. That doesn't sound like a very professional or stand up approach on their part.
You agreed to play the gig for drinks, so just play it. Forget all this crap about "deserving to be paid". You're a young guy starting out; as you said, it's an easy gig, so just do it and have fun. After all, did you have anything better to do that night?
