Subcontra Bass Hype or practical

[westland]

Thanks Westland for recognizing the practicality in this instrument and understanding that this is my child.I conceived this instrument for many reasons one being to assist in expressing myself as an individual.I never expected many to get it let alone understand the most logical aspect of having an instrument like this and it's kind of kool being the only one having such an instrument.for my first CD I could have done one where I did a solo or two but felt I could do that CD some other Time(and that time is coming)but I chose my first CD to feature me in an entirely supportive role.I have a Trio recording(with Bernard Purdie as my rhythm mate)that will be out some time this year that features my Fretless Sub contra Bass again and if you're familiar with the Groove power of Bernard I think you won't be disappointed.I'm also the first to know that The Low C# Theory is not for everyone and I'm not offended by it at all but I feel that in a few years from now some of those who didn't grasp it for what ever reason(s)will seek it out(and no this is not ego speaking)

There is a lot of music in me,so much that I don't think I will get it all out in this Lifetime.

I, for one, am happy that there are people out there like you that are willing to push the envelope. It takes energy, courage and probably not a little bit of irrationality to pursue something really new. It's this sort of passion that keeps it interesting for all of us. So I hope you keep experimenting and putting out CDs. The rise of the Internet and the decline of the major music companies makes this is a good time to be an independent producer / musician. So take full advantage of it, and keep posting here and keep creating.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

I, for one, am happy that there are people out there like you that are willing to push the envelope. It takes energy, courage and probably not a little bit of irrationality to pursue something really new. It's this sort of passion that keeps it interesting for all of us. So I hope you keep experimenting and putting out CDs. The rise of the Internet and the decline of the major music companies makes this is a good time to be an independent producer / musician. So take full advantage of it, and keep posting here and keep creating.

Thanks for the positive support

 

[sethlow3]

Though I haven't listened to your albums, I would have to agree that its a cool idea. I would assume your voice (on bass) would do great things with piano, synths, cello's, acoustic guitars, organs and other meaty low instruments. What are some of your experiences with others on such low/thick tones?

That is probably why so many have said "my cover band doesn't even go below the E string" Well and so what? You could totally use your bass on the low sub dance genre, classical, pop, R&B, and more. You should use this as your studio calling card. There really may be a whole new window of gigs you could get over the average bass player or keboardist. Hell maybe even use a pick, it does seem to add more attack, and to me its like learning bow on upright bass.

I remember my first experience with a tuba. I was 4 years old in a Michigan parade. My chest got POUNDED by the tuba section in the marching band. Everything else sounded tame to me, but I distinctly remember the tuba section filled me up with joy and kicking my A$$ at the same time. It seems to me like you could potentially do that with a sub contra bass.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

Though I haven't listened to your albums, I would have to agree that its a cool idea. I would assume your voice (on bass) would do great things with piano, synths, cello's, acoustic guitars, organs and other meaty low instruments. What are some of your experiences with others on such low/thick tones?

Thanks,
I have utilized my sub contra bass in various musical settings and each time it has only enhanced the music and the overall timbre of the music chosen.a lot of Kat's who are quick to say such things as my cover band doesn't even go below the E string should understand that if their doing covers(and it depends on what songs their covering)that for them this instrument may very well not be for them.as far as studio calling I have used the Bass on songwriters demo's and I will be back in LA in a few months and I will be easing the Sub contra bass into the Pop,R&B etc.genre,the thickness of this Bass is Heaven every thing that I can do on a Traditional 4 string I can do on my Sub contra bass.I'm sure if a Bassist with a more household name was using this Bass some on the nay sayers would be all over it(for the record Pino Palladino uses a P Bass tuned C# F# B E).on a related note on practicality

Cheap Trick bassist Tom Peterson recognized me from an article he read on me and came over and introduced himself and told me how kool he thought it was that I had conceived the 15 string bass and just wanted to thank me and while I'm thanking him it comes to me and I say,well you're the Bassist that gave us the 12 string bass and we looked at each other and paused and had a big laugh,it's moments like that,that help you move in the right direction.
I will continue to do what I am here to do and to be honest if people don't dig oh well,I can't lose any sleep over it.

 

[BassChuck]

I loved the clips and for some time I had some major GAS to get one. But... well, for most of the playing I do it just wouldn't fit in as the people who pay me expect the bass to fit in.

That said, I was struck by the posibilities of using this in some studio settings to accent some lower notes and parts of a more standard bass line. In that setting I could make use of it.

Many people have noted that it is the innovators that have brought tools to us to make use of. This is a very, very interesting aspect of 20th and 21st century music, that the innovations in instrument design are piloting the direction of music rather than the other way around as it has been for centuries before (just think of the influence MIDI has had, or multi-track recording).

I'm thinking that the SubContraBass Guitar may see a future as ONE of the bass guitars in a band. I'm hearing the SubContra, a 5 string (EADGC) bass and the regular guitar that we know and 'love' today. With some careful working out of parts that could be one lovely sound. The SubContra being the 'groove' bass instrument and the 5 string being more melodic than todays bass. The guitar of course, would serve as the rhythmic element in the section.

 

[AndreasH]

It's not hype at all in my opinion. I really like the idea of pushing limits and it's pushing limits that makes evolution. I can only think of this particular matter in a positive way but for some it may seem negative. Without people pushing limits, we probably wouldn't have the electric bass even less the 5- and 6-string bass (And beyond). If the subcontra bass helps one to make music and pleasures and satisfies the musician, then go for it. Note that this is only my perspective of the situation.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

Not a Subcontra Bass but close.

Invalid Link Removed

 

[knuckle_head]

I played that - it sounds awesome.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

I played that - it sounds awesome.

Yes,it sounded and played very nice.

 

[xXMurderSoulXx]

Not a Subcontra Bass but close.

Invalid Link Removed

I question the practicality of that bass. Right now, we don't have cabs that can handle that. Not to mention, something even as low as F# won't be heard in a band. With current music, you can even hear the bass half the time, F# would be a bad idea. It would be like just playing a note that won't be heard. I think higher is the only way audable to go, but then your gonna be steping on the guitarists range.

 

[mark beem]

I question the practicality of that bass. Right now, we don't have cabs that can handle that. Not to mention, something even as low as F# won't be heard in a band. With current music, you can even hear the bass half the time, F# would be a bad idea. It would be like just playing a note that won't be heard. I think higher is the only way audable to go, but then your gonna be steping on the guitarists range.

Not true...

Basson Sound and AccuGroove (among others) make cabs rated for freqs that low.

And the note can be heard just fine... I know because I have one:

Invalid Link Removed

 

[JAUQO III-X]

I question the practicality of that bass. Right now, we don't have cabs that can handle that. Not to mention, something even as low as F# won't be heard in a band. With current music, you can even hear the bass half the time, F# would be a bad idea. It would be like just playing a note that won't be heard. I think higher is the only way audable to go, but then your gonna be steping on the guitarists range.

None of the above is true at all,it would be just like any other Bass where it fits in the mix of things where you take the time to make it fit.Remember you have my CD and you said that you are able to hear every note very clearly and I had two crazy guitars on it(and the Bass was not lost in the mix at all),I think you need to train your hears to hear notes beyond the low B and Bass players need to learn how to mix those low notes and relearn what would be the proper rig for such a Bass.

 

[xXMurderSoulXx]

Not true...

Basson Sound and AccuGroove (among others) make cabs rated for freqs that low.

And the note can be heard just fine... I know because I have one:

Invalid Link Removed

Normal everyday musicians cannot afford that type of equipment. Remember, all bands start off small.

None of the above is true at all,it would be just like any other Bass where it fits in the mix of things where you take the time to make it fit.Remember you have my CD and you said that you are able to hear every note very clearly and I had two crazy guitars on it(and the Bass was not lost in the mix at all),I think you need to train your hears to hear notes beyond the low B and Bass players need to learn how to mix those low notes and relearn what would be the proper rig for such a Bass.

I could hear it through my ipod when the guitar was not playing off its solos. Ill hook my ipod up to my bass amp tonight to see if I can hear/ feel the bass while guitar is playing. When you asked if I could hear the bass clearly I thought you meant at any time. When the guitar settles down I can hear it, but when the solo picks up, I cannot. Also, is your guitarist playing on any string lower than E? I like that guitar solo, I might try to play it.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

The guitarist in the left speaker is playing a 9 string and his three lowest notes are C# F# and B.

And believe me I mixed that recording so that every aspect of the Bass guitar can be heard thru out the entire recording and where you think you may not be hearing it isn't the case at all because if the Bass was lost there would be spots where the music would lose it's bottom response and there would be a big sonic gap and no where on the recording does that happen.

 

[mark beem]

Normal everyday musicians cannot afford that type of equipment. Remember, all bands start off small.

I AM a normal everyday musician...

 

[lefty007]

Kudos for pushing the envelope. I'm sure it can be used in meaningful ways.

Although I'm not digging your CD much because it lacks melody and form - sounds like Fieldy, Buckethead, Larry LaLonde, and a bitchin' drummer got together for a jam. . . Was that your intention in that project?

I'm digging your playing, though, and the drummer, of course.

I only play 4-strings, but I use a synth sub bass a lot in my productions, so I understand the potential.

 

[greenboy]

I question the practicality of that bass. Right now, we don't have cabs that can handle that.

A fair number of stock cabs handle it without farting - and though they don't reproduce fundamentals of lower notes at even -6dB, they don't do that on a low B0 string and in many cases, standard open E1, either... Fortunately all notes have overtones which comprise the majority of an electric bass signal anyway.

Not to mention, something even as low as F# won't be heard in a band.

That's funny. I take my fretless Six to cover band gigs strung with a F#/E0 (Hipshot) sometimes and everybody can hear it and then some. Notes in that region occasionally get substituted for ones played an octave up in the recordings and nobody has ever said that there wasn't meat on the plate. One guitarist actually prefers during solos that I transpose downward more often because he likes that uberlow vibe.

With current music, you can even hear the bass half the time, F# would be a bad idea. It would be like just playing a note that won't be heard. I think higher is the only way audable to go, but then your gonna be steping on the guitarists range.

Amazing how people with no actual experience using such things know all the answers.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

I'm not digging your CD much

I'm not mad at you,that's kool and I'm the first to say that the CD is not for every one.As far as form there is definitely form in the recording(if it wasn't the rhythm section would have sounded like it was falling down a flight of stairs).One of the initial concepts behind the recording was to show what my Sub contra Bass concept can do in a high intense none friendly and fierce musical settings and still support the overall music.

Did you purchase a copy of my CD to hear it in it's entirety ?

Amazing how people with no actual experience using such things know all the answers.

 

[Human Bass]

I once a read a review of your subcontra album, it wasnt a very positive review...

 

[greenboy]

Although I'm not digging your CD much because it lacks melody and form

Maybe it would be more apt to say the melodies and form are not what you are accustomed to. It's more akin to what you hear in Ornette Coleman double-rhythm-section Prime Time, or some of James Blood Ulmer's stuff. Yeah, it's improv, but there's lots of development of thematic material though its improv, it's tied together.

I really dig jamming from people who can deal at this level.