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Subcontra Knowledge Thread (Octave 0)

Jack Deth

Jack Deth

May 7, 2020
610
858
Missouri
#1
I realize that the B string, and more likely even lower tunings, are not everybody’s cup of tea. However, from reading a multitude of posts in threads across TB I believe there are enough of us subcontra lovers that I thought it would be good to have a thread that provides workable knowledge on the topic. The intention of the thread is to cover tips and tricks, playing techniques, setup, gear that works, gear that does not work, and overall a collection point for all things subcontra that can assist someone in getting the most out of their playing. I want to qualify that for the sake of this thread, the intention is to include tunings from B0 (standard 5 and 6 string B) down. In particular, I am hoping to build a single place to find knowledgeable facts around all of octave 0. I suspect drop A on a 5 string may show the most, but other tunings such as F# will like show up often also.

I humbly ask that posts such as, “that’s not even sound anymore,” or, “who needs to tune that low anyway, your cabs can’t reproduce it” be refrained from as this thread is intended for knowledge, not philosophical debates. If you are not interested in these tunings please respect those that are.
 
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#5
Jack Deth said:
I’ve found that the larger gauge strings require you to lower the bass side of your pickups to maintain a more even recording level. The .192 E0 has so much mass it was between 5 and 10 db’s higher output than the rest of the strings.
Click to expand...
I actually had the reverse problem. Raised the action on just my F# string (.176) so that I could be heavy on it but still avoid buzz. Can tell it's now a bit quieter than the B string. I also bought a .184 and .192 set. I'll have to try them some day, but man, that F# is thick already!

Other pro tip: For a 35" scale bass with a zero fret (say... the BTB 747) Kalium strings taper just in time to fit in the nut with no filing needed.
 
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#7
While I’m at it I may as well mention I have the F# set from Dingwall to set up one (or both) of my NG’s. That setup will take me longer because I’ll be overly cautious. Once I’ve decided which bass will receive it, the 5 or 6 string, I’ll document that one too.

EDIT: might do both, who knows.
 
Last edited:
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#8
back in the day there was a forum member very well known for tuning C#, F#, B, E.

as in, a regular low E is the *highest* string on that bass. I bought his record and found the sounds to be very interesting.

i actually bought a set of those strings, a friend of mine was an endorsee of a company that made them. they were very expensive and i never put them on my bass.

if anyone wants 'em, let me know because i'm not using them.
 
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#9
By some lucky coincident, I happened to listen to one track with Jauqo (the above reference) playing a fretless sub contra bass. I think the fretted, lowbtune instruments have a niche that is well justified, bu fretless??? I have good headhones, but still the lack of articulation was annoying me. And that was in a TRIO, with Purdie on drums, and one electric guitar player.

But as I said, well built, fretted sub contra bass is very cool, IMHO!
 
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#10
Jack Deth said:
I humbly ask that posts such as, “that’s not even sound anymore,” or, “who needs to tune that low anyway, your cabs can’t reproduce it” be refrained from as this thread is intended for knowledge, not philosophical debates. If you are not interested in these tunings please respect those that are.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. But I've found is that very few want to spend the money or drag around the equipment sufficient enough to properly reproduce those lower frequencies. Listening to a Fender Rumble struggle trying to keep up at a decent volume and then putting a high pass filter on it to try to get it not fart out the speaker. Strings are all nice and such, but what are you using to amplify it? What PA and how many and what kind of subs are you using? There are some relevant questions.
 
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#11
I am interested to see where this thread goes. My only experience with a sub-contra bass was years ago a the Seattle Bass meet. One awesome Talkbass member let everybody there play their sub-contra bass. It was an interesting experience with those massive strings. Those low frequencies consumed to room. I have no idea what type of speaker would be needed to make those sounds. Luckily the bass never hit the proverbial brown note. But I bet it was close.
 
#12
Although not Subcontra as it were, I played in C# standard (sometimes drop B) for about 10 years, and frequently would use a little bit of POG upper and lower octave on my sound to cut through a bit more. Not so that much that you would even notice it. Just a bit of extra junk in the bottom and zing on the top. The POG usually sounds like terrible if you have the effect on too high (which is usually why the haters hate it), but if you just add a dash of it to the direct sound, it can really help lower octaves have both a bit more girth and a bit more definition.
 
#13
You probably need a proper sub woofer than go as close as possible to 20 Hz. There are some 3 meter grand pianos with 10 foot strings - I think they have a F0 But if you really want to get that low and hear the fundamental, you will probably have better success with a synth or a pipe organ/ The biggest piano is 5 meters. I know that you can mike the bottom of a piano with a woofer instead of a microphone and you can get proper lows
 
#14
drumvsbass said:
use a little bit of POG upper and lower octave on my sound
Click to expand...
That’s my secret sauce to having a decent sound come from an E0 or F#0. Limit the lows as you mention because it will distort your tone, while enhancing mids and add just a touch of sparkle on top. Some may ask what’s the point of running E0 when cutting the lows. I can say that an E0 with lows cut enough to stop the distortion (commonly known as “farting”) will still effectively have a lower sound than E1. I believe having the right blend of the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th harmonics are key to pulling out the 1st harmonic in your mind’s ear. I also believe the 2nd harmonic from an E0 is somehow different than the 1st harmonic of E1 (no objective proof though). Perhaps the energy dispersion pattern across the various harmonics? For me, hearing 20.6hz in isolation is very similar to the air sounds coming from a helicopter’s rotors, and lower than that simply slows down the “rotor.” When the 2nd harmonic is added magic begins. Add additional harmonics at certain energy levels and your brain turns up the proverbial volume of the 1st harmonic making them all dance together in some lower realm. All this is subjective, but that’s my current hypothesis.
 
#15
Here’s an example. While some folks do not agree with the genre, please take a listen to Hell Below by Periphery. Even on my dinky iPhone speaker (more so with the tiny ear buds) I can still make out the lowness with clarity of Nolly Getgood’s bass set up with C#0. It doesn’t take a $120k rig with an army of roadies to set it all up to produce that effect (my iPhone just did it). It’s simply ultra low because you hear it that way. If this effect can be reproduced on an iPhone speaker, a 500+ watt rig will only add vibrance to it. As mentioned in a post above, the secret sauce is tweaking the harmonics in the right way to get the most out of it while preventing distortion.
 
#17
Hey friends.
I’ve had an ERB for about 5-6ish years now with a low C#. It’s tough to get that tone out in general, but I’ve been using a keyboard amp pretty much since the start.
It at least balances the sound better overall.
I purchased it based on some advice I’d read on this forum back around 2005 or so. It can really push the spectrum of the bass.

That said, for my band I’m using a full stack Acoustic brand Bass amp (it’s not mine, I don’t have much in the way of specs). That can really project some of the sub frequencies, but as others have mentioned, you need to roll off the lows a little and push the mids more to really get that sound.

A few other notes:
I’ve recently purchased a Redsub Coliseum from Gear4Music, and I’ve been tuning that F Bb Eb Ab Db. Same advice as above, put the bass eq about center, roll up the mids, feather touch on treble.

YMMV, but I’ve been able to hear (and feel) those notes very clearly with that setup.

I think a decent snappy compression should help curve that sound as well.

Last bit: on thicker sub bass strings, you’ll get plenty of sound with lighter playing. You don’t need to hammer out the notes as hard as you can, and you’ll end up distorting the note and sounding “wobbly”. These instruments play differently than your standard bass, so take the time to get to know them.
 
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#19
drumvsbass said:
Although not Subcontra as it were, I played in C# standard (sometimes drop B) for about 10 years, and frequently would use a little bit of POG upper and lower octave on my sound to cut through a bit more. Not so that much that you would even notice it. Just a bit of extra junk in the bottom and zing on the top. The POG usually sounds like terrible if you have the effect on too high (which is usually why the haters hate it), but if you just add a dash of it to the direct sound, it can really help lower octaves have both a bit more girth and a bit more definition.
Click to expand...
C standard for over 10 years, for everything from straight ahead jazz to hip hop, funk and heavy stuff.
C-F-Eb-Bb
 

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