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Sunn 4x15 cab

So I was looking at 4x12s at Reverb a when I found this old one from the 70's with a kind-of wedge or V shaped speaker baffle.
It makes a lot of sense to me, since it would have a more compact footprint (and would be easier to move, since you'd actually get your arms around it).
The question is how does that effect the sonic qualities? Does the sound waves get spread out when they cross, are they "funneled" straight out from the cab or do they "crash" into each other, making the cabinet less loud for the audience?
 

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Better educated folks than me will be along any minute, but given that there were a few companies that made a similar design, and the fact that they didn't take the world by storm (or even make much dent in the market), I'll venture that it is "not a better mousetrap" and that you can do better with a more conventional design.
 
No. Just, no. The worst bass cabinet that Sunn ever produced. It seems that they had a certain size cabinet in production and decided to see whether they could stuff 4 15" drivers in it. Yes they could. No they should not have. Not to mention the weight.

I'm aware of the weight (the total weight of the speakers alone would be about 20 kg, and feather weight-plywood isn't a thing to my knowledge)
What I'm wondering about, again, is the sound. If you don't have personal experience or can explain the physics of colliding soundwaves, then don't bother
 
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Cross firing like that is often an attempt to widen dispersion. The down side is it reduces the internal volume of the cab, which will most likely cause the low end to roll of earlier.

Fender made a 412 that we refer to as the pyramid cab...and most consider it awful.
d2e6cuq1ncugn3z1sq0j.jpg


Trace Elliot made some guitar cabs with three drivers.
upload_2024-1-4_23-31-8.jpeg


I believe Sunn also made 612 with crossfired drivers.
upload_2024-1-4_23-32-15.jpeg


Apogee Sound made a 415 Subwoofer
upload_2024-1-4_23-34-29.jpeg


I am sure there are many other examples.
 
Cross firing like that is often an attempt to widen dispersion. The down side is it reduces the internal volume of the cab, which will most likely cause the low end to roll of earlier.

Fender made a 412 that we refer to as the pyramid cab...and most consider it awful.
d2e6cuq1ncugn3z1sq0j.jpg


Trace Elliot made some guitar cabs with three drivers.
View attachment 5306629

I believe Sunn also made 612 with crossfired drivers.
View attachment 5306630

Apogee Sound made a 415 Subwoofer
View attachment 5306631

I am sure there are many other examples.
Many things are considered awful by lots of people, often without any real reason.
All communities are to some extent echo chambers (for example, people believe tonewood is a thing in electrics because Gibson transferred that piece of marketing over from their acoustics and people believed it and spread it to others) this doesn't NECESSARILY mean that the common consensus is true, that's why I'm interested in the physics of soundwaves colliding/crossing.
 
Many things are considered awful by lots of people, often without any real reason.
All communities are to some extent echo chambers (for example, people believe tonewood is a thing in electrics because Gibson transferred that piece of marketing over from their acoustics and people believed it and spread it to others) this doesn't NECESSARILY mean that the common consensus is true, that's why I'm interested in the physics of soundwaves colliding/crossing.
Maybe you ought to take some physics classes? Then you will be better able to recognize the trade offs and challenges with this type of design.

Your response suggests that aren’t interested in learning… remember that you asked the question.
 
Maybe you ought to take some physics classes? Then you will be better able to recognize the trade offs and challenges with this type of design.

Your response suggests that aren’t interested in learning… remember that you asked the question.
Of course I'm interested in learning, but knowing the general consensus isn't very useful to me, the physics are.
However, I'm NOT interested in studying, that's why I'm asking on a forum were someone might be able to tell me the answer
 
Many things are considered awful by lots of people, often without any real reason.
All communities are to some extent echo chambers (for example, people believe tonewood is a thing in electrics because Gibson transferred that piece of marketing over from their acoustics and people believed it and spread it to others) this doesn't NECESSARILY mean that the common consensus is true, that's why I'm interested in the physics of soundwaves colliding/crossing.

The only cab I labeled as awful was the Fender Pyramid. The OEM driver in this cab was a low-powered guitar speaker that was very easy to blow with a 100W Bassman. If you put more robust drivers in the cab that can safely handle more power, the pyramid baffle tends to come apart at the seams. There are plenty of other things to not like about it. But feel free to try one and judge for yourself. If you love it :thumbsup:, but most people will think it sucks.

Interaction of the soundwaves is only part of the equation. You may find this interesting and informative.


With respect to bass, you also have to consider how the crossfire array effects the internal volume of the cab. Actual performance would depend on available internal volume and the Thiele Small characteristics of the drivers. For the most part, old school drivers, like those in old Sunn and Fender cabs, tend to require more internal volume to produce extended lows.

Modern drivers can be designed to work well with less internal volume, but there are trade offs. The Apogee subwoofer I showed you puts out a lot of bass, but it does not play super low. The designers would have chosen drivers that work well in a relatively small amount of volume. This tends to result in a driver with a low sensitivity rating. The AE-15 overcomes the low sensitivity of one driver by leveraging the mutual summing of 4 drivers with fairly high power handling.

The Sensitivity of the AE-15 is 101dB 1W/1m. Two of the 15s would be 98dB 1W/1m. One of the 15s would be 95dB 1W/1m. I would call this sort of medium efficiency for a bass cab.

The power rating for this cab is 2000W continuous and 9600W peak. SPL is 134dB continuous/140dB peak. -3dB is at 40hz.


The response plot with the required processor looks like this:
upload_2024-1-5_1-12-5.png


If you loaded one of the 15s in a cab that tunes exactly the same as the AE-15 and feed it 500W continuous/2400W peak, SPL is 122dB continuous/128dB peak.
 
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Of course I'm interested in learning, but knowing the general consensus isn't very useful to me, the physics are.
However, I'm NOT interested in studying, that's why I'm asking on a forum were someone might be able to tell me the answer
If you don't want to know how it works, other people's opinions are the only thing you can go by.
 
I remember these cabs.

(Pros)
Cosmetics looked great, (it looked mean!)
Sounded good at low volume levels.
It had casters.

(Cons)
Sound was just ok at moderate volume, drivers wouldn't hold their composure at high levels.
Power handling was low, 220 w.
Heavy.
Large in dimensions, 42.5" H. (not counting casters) x 26" W. x 18" D.
Transport was a PIA unless you had a van, station wagon or box truck.
 
So I was looking at 4x12s at Reverb a when I found this old one from the 70's with a kind-of wedge or V shaped speaker baffle.
It makes a lot of sense to me, since it would have a more compact footprint (and would be easier to move, since you'd actually get your arms around it).
The question is how does that effect the sonic qualities? Does the sound waves get spread out when they cross, are they "funneled" straight out from the cab or do they "crash" into each other, making the cabinet less loud for the audience?
They're fine, if all you want is something big with a wide spread of just presence in the room.

No low end, not much low mids. Plenty of mids, and upper mids.

A better cabinet in the Sunn line would be the 200s bottom. If you need something big and heavy to carry. At least it sounds better.

ascac3ytucycvmptxj0q.jpg
imgext.jpeg


:)
 
Cross firing like that is often an attempt to widen dispersion. The down side is it reduces the internal volume of the cab, which will most likely cause the low end to roll of earlier.

Fender made a 412 that we refer to as the pyramid cab...and most consider it awful.
d2e6cuq1ncugn3z1sq0j.jpg


Trace Elliot made some guitar cabs with three drivers.
View attachment 5306629

I believe Sunn also made 612 with crossfired drivers.
View attachment 5306630

Apogee Sound made a 415 Subwoofer
View attachment 5306631

I am sure there are many other examples.
I had the 6x12 with a Model T head. Got rid of the 6x12 for a 200S bottom.

:)
 
I can't help much to help you understand why the cross firing cab isn't the best idea, but I know, it isn't the best idea.

THAT said:

Even if it worked.."OK", you would still get better: bass tone/bass response/Volume/power handling from a modern 1x15" bass cabinet. All that AND easier to schlep (if that's one's thing).

Advances in Speaker/cab tech in the past 20+ yrs alone makes it not worth it.

*YMMV
:cigar:
T$
 
then don't bother

That also seems to be the consensus.


However, not everything in this thread is Just personal opinion. There are people posting in this thread who do sound, amplifier, and cab design for a living. They are not about to sit down and spoon feed you a whole intro physics course to explain the science behind why that cab is a bad design. Especially if you have no interest in putting some personal effort into acquiring the needed background to understand it. Most real answers involving science are far from simple and usually require a fairly comprehensive prior understanding of the topic to be fully understood.

For my part, I’m not a scientist or an audio pro. But I do date back to the time when those type of cabs suddenly started showing up on stages. And they sounded pretty lame IMO. Which might have been the consensus of their owners too considering they seemed to start disappearing from stages just as suddenly.