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Sunn 4x15 cab

#42
DanBass said:
The "salty" responses in my opinion were only reciprocated. Unfortunately it is not a black an white issue, and attempting to explain it as such would be a disservice overall.

Because if you don't understand WHY, do you really understand?
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re the salty responses, one, I think there's a cultural/language barrier in play since OP is in Sweden. I imagine that lead to some confusion both ways as far as tone and intent.

Two, within a few hours of posting the thread he was being instructed to just "take some physics classes." When he said he wasn't interested in doing that, the thread really went off the rails.

It wasn't a stupid question for him to ask and I confess I'm a bit confused by the fact that we're now at two pages of responses that are basically summed up as "it sounds bad, but for very complex scientific reasons that you wouldn't understand, and no I won't tell you what they are."
 
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#43
The_Conqueror said:
Many things are considered awful by lots of people, often without any real reason.
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If you like a hollow sounding cabinet with no real bottom end, these are for you. Where were you about 50 years ago? You could have helped to keep the design alive! :)

Many things are considered awful by lots of people, because sometimes they're just awful. Many things that look good on paper or even in life, just don't translate into real-world experiences and expectations, so folks just won't buy them.

Another cabinet that might have looked good on paper and made it into the real world production that you don't see anymore, the mighty Ampeg Isovent...

uz3gz6vhielka1saesas.jpg

Like a lot of things we humans thought would revolutionize the bass audio world that no one uses. It happens, then we move on, hopefully.

:)
 
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#45
Obese Chess said:
I'm not really sure what happened here - it seems to me like OP was curious as to what exactly makes this a bad design but doesn't have the technical knowledge to understand a super in-depth explanation and people basically told him to piss off.

Candidly, I have the same question - it seems like a bad idea on its face, having the speakers pointed at each other like that, but I don't know enough to be able to articulate why. I will say that the 115BH has always sounded good to my ears, but that's a single speaker rather than four pointed at each other.
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Sometimes technical knowledge is not needed to understand that sometimes somethings are just crap. There are explanation that would explain why they sound like crap but explaining it won't make them sound any better.

:)
 
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#47
The_Conqueror said:
So I was looking at 4x12s at Reverb a when I found this old one from the 70's with a kind-of wedge or V shaped speaker baffle.
It makes a lot of sense to me, since it would have a more compact footprint (and would be easier to move, since you'd actually get your arms around it).
The question is how does that effect the sonic qualities? Does the sound waves get spread out when they cross, are they "funneled" straight out from the cab or do they "crash" into each other, making the cabinet less loud for the audience?
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My guess is if this design totally disappeared from the market, there is a reason for this.
 
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#48
dalkowski said:
I don't think I've ever done this before, but I feel compelled.

Not to diss the sonic smarts on this forum and in this thread (for whom I have boundless respect and admiration — this is the stuff I wish I'd studied instead of English), but in fairness the OP asked 3 curious-layman-level yes-or-no questions. Questions I would ask. Maybe the answers aren't binary, but maybe he would have been satisfied with responses that tried to meet him where he is and this thread would have been less salty.

(For the record, I'm in the "If it sounded any good, everyone would make them" camp.)

In the immortal words of BassCliff, thank you for your indulgence.
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The answers aren't binary, he was given some good, accurate answers by several members, and then the OP started arguing and disagreeing yet wasn't interested in the science behind the answers he received. Everyone isn't making them, in fact no company is, which reinforces the answers he was given.

Obese Chess said:
Well, sure, but if I wanted to know why something was crap, and I asked a bunch of people why something was crap, I wouldn't be satisfied with "it just is." That's all. Just not sure why everyone got on OP the way they did, even as someone who loves his crappy amps. ;)
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He didn't get the "it just is" answer, he received some good explanations too.

Over the 15 years that I have been on TB, it has evolved with a larger number of folks willing to put some effort into learning more about the technology behind their art. The level of understanding today is much higher than it was 15 years ago, and ultimately it benefits everyone here who is willing to put forth the effort to learn and be at last a little bit respectful to those trying to help.
 
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#49
Obese Chess said:
re the salty responses, one, I think there's a cultural/language barrier in play since OP is in Sweden. I imagine that lead to some confusion both ways as far as tone and intent.

Two, within a few hours of posting the thread he was being instructed to just "take some physics classes." When he said he wasn't interested in doing that, the thread really went off the rails.

It wasn't a stupid question for him to ask and I confess I'm a bit confused by the fact that we're now at two pages of responses that are basically summed up as "it sounds bad, but for very complex scientific reasons that you wouldn't understand, and no I won't tell you what they are."
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Oh I never thought it was stupid at all... we are a community with different levels of knowledge, experience.. mix that in with opinions, preferences and ideas, and you have a nifty little thing here.

That said, two comments really have nothing to do with the language barrier, at least in my humble option.

"If you don't have personal experience or can explain the physics of colliding soundwaves, then don't bother.."

"Of course I'm interested in learning, but knowing the general consensus isn't very useful to me, the physics are.
However, I'm NOT interested in studying, that's why I'm asking on a forum were someone might be able to tell me the answer.."

Look, I may have no use for the info, might not care, it might be more than I want or need, but if someone took the time to lay some some knowledge my way, I am always appreciative.

Not too mention, with the number of responses on the post, there has to be some pearl of wisdom that he gleaned, no?
 
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#50
Often times, equipment that is considered to sound bad can actually be perfectly fine, the best way to use them simply hadn't been figured out yet. The early Roland drum machines were not really taken seriously until electronic musicians found ways to use their tinny, stiff soundmaking advantageously. The Jaguar and Jazzmaster guitars were picked up by independent bands in the 80s because they were cheap, and those sounds became signature. Peavey's compact guitar amps weren't taken as seriously by mainstream rockers as by the early noise and grunge bands who wanted the distinctive harsh sounds they made when overdriven.

There is also some equipment that just doesn't hack it, nobody will ever find their sound with it. A lot of big old speaker cabs are too big, heavy, delicate, low-powered, and weak-sounding to be worthwhile. They were built in an era when 300 watts was a nearly unimaginable amount of power. Expectations have dramatically changed, among those the usefulness of speakers the size of fridges that can't keep up with an amp that these days might only be considered sufficient for driving a small speaker at an acoustic cafe gig.
 
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#53
Obese Chess said:
Well, sure, but if I wanted to know why something was crap, and I asked a bunch of people why something was crap, I wouldn't be satisfied with "it just is." That's all. Just not sure why everyone got on OP the way they did, even as someone who loves his crappy amps. ;)
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I hear yah.
My crappy stuff I don't use anymore...

101_0035a.jpg

I was living the dream of old stuff trying to sound good.

:)
 
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#54
TheReceder said:
I can't speak to the Sun 4x15 cabinet, but when I was younger I ran an Acoustic 408 cabinet, and back then, the FOH typically needed a little bottom end support. FOH was usually a couple 18s in W bins, or maybe 4 7ft folded horns.

I don't know the technicalities , but all I know, is that 4x15 cab was probably one of my favorite speaker cabs for flat out blasting bottom end in a ballroom. It wasn't that horrible to move for a young guy. Admittedly, now I enjoy thrwoing an elf in my gig bag and showing up with a 1x10.
View attachment 5307155
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Those worked!

:)
 
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#55
Obese Chess said:
Well, sure, but if I wanted to know why something was crap, and I asked a bunch of people why something was crap, I wouldn't be satisfied with "it just is." That's all. Just not sure why everyone got on OP the way they did, even as someone who loves his crappy amps. ;)
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I’m torn between legitimately being interested in knowing if there any advantages or disadvantages to angling speakers in this way and caring enough since it’s a largely academic question given the realities of cabinet design.
 
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#56
Obese Chess said:
re the salty responses, one, I think there's a cultural/language barrier in play since OP is in Sweden. I imagine that lead to some confusion both ways as far as tone and intent.

Two, within a few hours of posting the thread he was being instructed to just "take some physics classes." When he said he wasn't interested in doing that, the thread really went off the rails.

It wasn't a stupid question for him to ask and I confess I'm a bit confused by the fact that we're now at two pages of responses that are basically summed up as "it sounds bad, but for very complex scientific reasons that you wouldn't understand, and no I won't tell you what they are."
Click to expand...
There actually was some science that was imparted.

Here at #5
Sunn 4x15 cab

And here #9
Sunn 4x15 cab

science-thomas-dolby (1).gif


I don't know if going deeper than that into the technical weeds would have helped.

:)
 
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#57
ardgedee said:
Often times, equipment that is considered to sound bad can actually be perfectly fine, the best way to use them simply hadn't been figured out yet.
Click to expand...

I could see using these speaker in question, with a powered sub to go with or, if I was in a Sleep cover band or doing the same music. If then, I wouldn't worry about the technical aspects at all.

:)
 
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