Sunn 4x15 cab

[agedhorse]

Brought to you by the US education system where regurgitating the correct answers is more important than learning how to think.

Which leads to people not knowing which answers are right or wrong because they can’t (or won’t) think for themselves.

 

[Pilgrim]

Of course I'm interested in learning, but knowing the general consensus isn't very useful to me, the physics are.
However, I'm NOT interested in studying, that's why I'm asking on a forum were someone might be able to tell me the answer

You got all the info you needed. Your response to @agedhorse shows that you don't know he designs amps and speakers and knows more about it than any other dozen people here.

Which leads to people not knowing which answers are right or wrong because they can’t (or won’t) think for themselves.

Exactly what they mean by teaching young people critical thinking. Those who don't do research or can't be bothered to think and learn are those who struggle.

 

[Brother Goose]

now I have "crossfire" by SRV stuck in my head and phantom back pains.

happy Friday funkateers!

 

[Obese Chess]

The answers aren't binary, he was given some good, accurate answers by several members, and then the OP started arguing and disagreeing yet wasn't interested in the science behind the answers he received. Everyone isn't making them, in fact no company is, which reinforces the answers he was given.



He didn't get the "it just is" answer, he received some good explanations too.

Over the 15 years that I have been on TB, it has evolved with a larger number of folks willing to put some effort into learning more about the technology behind their art. The level of understanding today is much higher than it was 15 years ago, and ultimately it benefits everyone here who is willing to put forth the effort to learn and be at last a little bit respectful to those trying to help.

Oh I never thought it was stupid at all... we are a community with different levels of knowledge, experience.. mix that in with opinions, preferences and ideas, and you have a nifty little thing here.

That said, two comments really have nothing to do with the language barrier, at least in my humble option.

"If you don't have personal experience or can explain the physics of colliding soundwaves, then don't bother.."

"Of course I'm interested in learning, but knowing the general consensus isn't very useful to me, the physics are.
However, I'm NOT interested in studying, that's why I'm asking on a forum were someone might be able to tell me the answer.."

Look, I may have no use for the info, might not care, it might be more than I want or need, but if someone took the time to lay some some knowledge my way, I am always appreciative.

Not too mention, with the number of responses on the post, there has to be some pearl of wisdom that he gleaned, no?

We may just have different perspectives on how the conversation happened, which is fine - I regarded the italicized posts as victims of a language barrier or cultural difference, in which OP was trying to say "if you don't know the answer then don't answer" or "I am not interested in studying physics in order to learn the answer to this question."

In any case, this is just another example of how text-based communication is vastly inferior to talking shop over a few beers: much easier to discern tone in those cases!

Which leads to people not knowing which answers are right or wrong because they can’t (or won’t) think for themselves.

Oh buddy, believe me, I've been trying to beat certain well-documented technical and scientific facts regarding my own pet projects into fellow hobbyist's heads for years with the conclusion that I'm just "being a hater." I get it.

 

[lOmnivore S]

I'd say don't hesitate with this cab. Get it.
The overall efficiency may be a bit 'experimental', but come on, this is a 4x15..
This thing is pure 70's 'progress'.
Once you're ok to move it around, just get it; some people pay huge money for this or that vintage instrument, when this thing is so obviously - the same. Grab it before it gets super expensive.
Hell I'm living in France and you can bet we'll all be salivating upon such never-to-be-seen-before glorious cabinet. Very American, very 70's.
I bet it does throw some sound.
Somehow..

 

[GreyBeard]

I'm old enough to have actually seen and heard one of those monsters. These amps were used at a time when most everything came off the stage and only vocals and maybe horns came through the PA. They sounded a lot like an Acoustic 370. Very mid heavy and loud as hell using no more than 100 watts. Back then we didn't mind carrying heavy stuff like Hammond B3's, Leslies, Altec A7's etc. One of those cabs was just another big heavy piece. Would it be appropriate for use today? If you want a big and heavy mid bass sound that can drown out a marching band, hear you go.

 

[Obese Chess]

I hear yah.
My crappy stuff I don't use anymore...

View attachment 5307255

I was living the dream of old stuff trying to sound good.

See, like I implied earlier about my affinity for bad gear, I actually sold off my GK MB500 and Neo 410 cabinet in favor of a 70s Peavey and a 115BH because it sounds better to me - I'm pretty much sworn off new amps until I can buy my dream rig as admittedly most of what sounds "better" to me than my current setup is $x,xxx. So, y'know, if you've got any old crap that you don't want to keep around anymore, looks like I'm in your neck of the woods

 

[DJ Bebop]

So I was looking at 4x12s at Reverb a when I found this old one from the 70's with a kind-of wedge or V shaped speaker baffle.
It makes a lot of sense to me, since it would have a more compact footprint (and would be easier to move, since you'd actually get your arms around it).
The question is how does that effect the sonic qualities? Does the sound waves get spread out when they cross, are they "funneled" straight out from the cab or do they "crash" into each other, making the cabinet less loud for the audience?

I guess I missed the what kind of music this is this being used for?

Other than that I remember these sounding big as far as midrangy and tall with a lot of presents. Kinda like an 8x10 but not as deep sounding as a trad Ampeg 8x10. A little beamy but in a good Stoner way. Again no real low end, but can get grindy.
Science? Who knows.

 

[Michedelic]

Some historical background…that cab was pitched to be matched with the Model T tube head(150 watts, an amp designated for both bass and guitar). The Sunn company at that time was owned/operated by a conglomerate, who had purchased it from founders the Sundholm Brothers, developers of the 200s/2000s rigs that were innovative in their moment. I’m not sure who the designers were in that later era(post-1970), but they seemed to be trying anything to compete in a market that had managed to pass them by (Acoustic, Ampeg, CV). All sorts of attempts, often mimicing enclosures of the emerging Sound Reinforcement scene, were thrown out there; just look at John Entwistle’s late 70’s rig in The Kids… movie. But I’m not so sure the 415 was completely thought out. Like the Fender pyramid, it wasn’t on the market long. I picked one up super cheap(mainly to aquire the lone EVM in it), gutted the angled baffle, and converted it to a 6x10”, basically a 3/4 fridge before that became a trend. The results weren’t too bad.

 

[Michedelic]

I guess I missed the what kind of music this is this being used for?

Other than that I remember these sounding big as far as midrangy and tall with a lot of presents. Kinda like an 8x10 but not as deep sounding as a trad Ampeg 8x10. A little beamy but in a good Stoner way. Again no real low end, but can get grindy.
Science? Who knows.

Hard rock, power rock, early metal of the mid-70’s

 

[agedhorse]

So, y'know, if you've got any old crap that you don't want to keep around anymore, looks like I'm in your neck of the woods

Sent it all through the shredder years ago, not even worth the cost of shipping. I tried to give some of it away, but that generated way too many headaches (no good deed goes unpunished).

 

[daveman50]

I'm old enough to have actually seen and heard one of those monsters.

Me too, since I was really into Sunn gear and still have some. The 415M was not Sunn's finest hour. IMO, from distant memory, it didn't sound nearly as good as any of the Sunn 215 cabinets. Possibly louder, but crummy.

 

[BlueTalon]

Which leads to people not knowing which answers are right or wrong because they can’t (or won’t) think for themselves.

Exactly what they mean by teaching young people critical thinking. Those who don't do research or can't be bothered to think and learn are those who struggle.

I think many young people actually are taught to think for themselves -- but they're taught to think using their emotions rather than their intellect. And emotional thinking isn't exactly thinking, it's something else.

 

[DJ Bebop]

Hard rock, power rock, early metal of the mid-70’s

Yup
I had some friends with ties to Sunn as they were local. Got to meet their cabinet designer. He had a lot of demo cabs much like the Entwistle stuff that I got from him.
Had that goofy 6x12 V baffle for a minute, with a Model T.

 

[singlemalt]

I picked up one of the Sunn 2-15 scoop cabs for $200. It was in excellent shape, with good castors and a vinyl cover. It was huge, heavy, loud, and muddy. It made two gigs and then no one would even help me lift it.

I sold it to a collector, unloaded, for $200 plus shipping, and sold the drivers for a small profit. Not even close to being worth the hassle. I was glad to put it on a Greyhound bus for San Francisco.

We suffered through a lot of crappy gear back in the Stone Age. Whenever I hear “vintage”, I just laugh.

 

[Michedelic]

Yup
I had some friends with ties to Sunn as they were local. Got to meet their cabinet designer. He had a lot of demo cabs much like the Entwistle stuff that I got from him.
Had that goofy 6x12 V baffle for a minute, with a Model T.

Yeah, that was another misstep…that box was 24”x40”x15”, way too small. Conrad came up with the straightforward 6x12 earlier, same size as the 2000s 2x15, used by Chris Squire.

 

[Stylee Mousse]

I had the v 612 for a minute in the 80’s and it couldn’t touch my sunn b215, even with the cheapo sunn branded 15s (I really liked how they sounded)

 

[Obese Chess]

Sent it all through the shredder years ago, not even worth the cost of shipping. I tried to give some of it away, but that generated way too many headaches (no good deed goes unpunished).

Oh, I was talking to @DJ Bebop since he's apparently also in Oregon, but if anyone else has any weird stuff they want to offload on me for free my DMs are always open.

 

[Jeff Scott]

Back then we didn't mind carrying heavy stuff like Hammond B3's, Leslies, Altec A7's etc.

Back then there were no other choices.

 

[Blues Bass 2]

I don't think the crossfire design is that bad . One of the only things wrong is that by the time you angle the baffles that much is that it doesn't leave much air behind the woofers for to tune for low end . The mids could be ok and the crossfire design would increase the dispersion from side to side but without any usable bottom end for bass guitar . But when you have a cabinet that big with four fifteen inch speakers you would think it would thunder and that one just won't . The Acoustic earlier in the thread was much more conservativly designed and worked way better .
Just my opinion .
A few people earlier alluded to the same thing but weren't given much credit .