SUPER CABS

[kekani]

BFM (www.billfitzmaurice.com) tends to be less expensive than fearful, because fearful specifies high end drivers only. With BFM you can use high end drivers if you want to, but you don't have to. The horn loaded models of BFM are also the loudest per watt. I've compared my Jack 12 using my Eden head side by side with just about every other 112 there is, including Baer, Barefaced and fearful, it beats them all.

If by beat you mean "mid strong" and cut through the mix, the Jack 112 has that in spades. I used my Eden WTX500 with it for a little bit; worked really well in the floor about 2' away from a back wall. I felt I needed more "meat" and after running through a fEARful 12/6, I'm currently at a fEARful 12/6 cube.

The Jack 112 goes loud, fast, as in efficient, but the 12/6 cube driven by my rack is just something else. Watts are cheap.

Can you get the same volume and tone out of a 210/410 et al? I'm sure. As it stands, I've not found anything that would have me spend $$$ to move away from a mixed driver design (dare I say that). For me. Caveat: if I needed an 810, that's what I'd get because they're available. Knowing me, I'd probably build a fEARful 1515/66 very soon after, OR throw money at a dual 15" driver design with split mid drivers. When I stacked 2x12/6's, that dual woofer goodness is, well, #ifuknowuknow. Same for a 1212/6. Can't even imagine a dual 15 cab done right.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

I would like to point out that just because a cab has a higher thermal wattage rated driver, it doesn't make it sound better. It may or may not depending on the design of the cab/driver combination. I personally don't like some of the higher thermal wattage drivers nearly as much as some of the slightly lower wattage rated drivers.

Excellent point!

In loudspeaker design, we find tradeoffs at just about every turn. Those large diameter, long voice coils which give a woofer "super" thermal and/or mechanical power handling work against top-end extension, which is one of the reasons why "super cabs" are virtually always two-way (or even three-way) cabs.

If it makes you grin from ear to ear then THAT is what I would call SUPER!

I tend to agree with you, but sometimes issues like a bad back push SPL-per-pound to the top of the priority list. Of course we boutique cab guys try really hard to make our cabs sound good too, each in our own way.

 

[bebass]

Excellent point!

In loudspeaker design, we find tradeoffs at just about every turn. Those large diameter, long voice coils which give a woofer "super" thermal and/or mechanical power handling work against top-end extension, which is one of the reasons why "super cabs" are virtually always two-way (or even three-way) cabs.



I tend to agree with you, but sometimes issues like a bad back push SPL-per-pound to the top of the priority list. Of course we boutique cab guys try really hard to make our cabs sound good too, each in our own way.

Oh yeah, the weight. A LARGE priority with me. I use the neo driver lightweight cabs and will never use another heavy cab if I can help it. Makes all the difference in the world to me. I also ran a pain clinic and know that injuries in the earlier years of a person's life can and most likely will haunt them for the rest of their life. Lots of times when we are young we don't think too much about the weight of equipment, but I suggest that we all should, as injuries generally are accumulative but maybe symptoms are delayed for years - but when it hits, bam, not fun.

 

[agedhorse]

Yes I believe you are right. The Subways are not "super": they do not handle more power or get vastly louder than other decent cabs with the same number of and diameter drivers, but they are great cabs. A conventional 12" driver is usually rated at 300 watts or so in terms of thermal limits, and will compress/stop getting louder well before that...a super cab with a single 12 is rated significantly higher and gets significantly louder (and often goes lower). This is the case with Barefaced, Greenboy, Audiokinesis, LDS (when he uses long x-max drivers, mid and xover) as compared even to other great sounding (but not "super") cabs like Mesa, Berg and Genzler. If the definition doesn't include higher performance drivers/higher power rating/higher output, then it becomes a subjective situation in which anyone can call his favorite cab "super". (FWIW I am currently playing Genzler 10-2 arrays and an old GB NX2-112 cab-none or 'em "super", but all superb .......My next cab will likely be an Audiokinesis Hathor.....super for sure.)

Let me clarify a couple of things here...

1. The Subway cabinets are rated at 400 watts (RMS thermal).

2. The Subway cabinets are rated at 400 watts (RMS mechanical)

From what I have seen, the Subways are still the only cabinet with published mechanical power ratings with in depth quantitative detail.

This is something TB had asked for, and chided manufacturers for not providing. Shouldn't all speakers in a "super speaker class" carry more detailed ratings?

(Edit for typo)

 

[alaskaleftybass]

No love for Mark Bass? My 4x10 seems pretty Super to me. I don't really know enough to talk. I recently stumbled upon "Janice" cabs via a Rig Rundown. The thing is the nice 6x12 "super" looking cab that they make weighs about 130lbs (pukes in mouth). And I know nothing about 12s. I got into Mark Bass cuz I thought they were super but MB doesn't get much TB love. Anyone know anything about Janice?

I've seen a lot of positive comments on Markbass but those who have a bone to pick against them are much more vocal. When Markbass moved to China it was some sort of betrayal to some Tb'ers. Nevermind the fact that some of the biggest brands are made in China, Thailand, and Vietnam. But you'll see here and there people with pictures of their Markbass equipment.

As far as the 610 sorry I can't add anything to that.

 

[Kirk Bryant]

I could not care less where MB is made, I don't like the way their cabs sound at all, def not super.
I've played thorough theFearfull 12 and 15 cabs several times, Pretty super. I have used various Bergs for around 10 yrs but am looking at picking up one of what I think are at the top of the super heap. Those would include AK, MAS, Ftype, BF and probably in that order or reverse the first two.

 

[Dave Hill]

Has anyone tried any of the BBC Boom Boom Tanks? I am interested in seeing a review. They may lack the mids but have high power handling according to manufacturer. They are also rated at only 50Hz so can they produce a low B at 31 Hz?

Yes. I've tried a BBC on stage and in a shoot out. It's a good cab, but, was totally out-classed by an F212 and AK Hathor 1203 stack.

 

[Stu_Bass]

 

[Sanchan]

Let me clarify a couple of things here...

1. The Subway cabinets are rated at 400 watts (RMS thermal).

2. The Subway cabinets are rated at 400 watts (RMS mechanical)

From what I have seen, the Subways are still the only cabinet with published mechanical power ratings with in depth quantitative detail.

This is something TB had asked for, and chided manufacturers for not providing. Shouldn't all speakers in a "super speaker class" carry more detailed ratings?

(Edit for typo)

+++1 Nothing to hide? Show the spec!

 

[seamonkey]

Raw speakers usually get rated with some kind of standard EIA 426A
Loudspeaker power handling | Eminence Speaker
Most cab makers just take this rated wattage on put it on the label for the cabinet. The original driver manufacturer has got no idea how well the cabinet is going to be made. It just doesn't work out to simply copy the driver rating and say the cabinet is rated the same.

Some honest manufacturers, like Mesa Boogie actually retest the whole design. Up to burn-out of the driver. Actual measurements, not some cheap trick like add the drivers watts up.

Some other cab makers do all kinds of gimmicks like cram as many drivers as possible into a small cab and really end up with a Frankenstein design and sound. They get to say their cab handles kilowatts of power because they add up the individual driver power. Buyers buy into these gimmicks and forever brag about their super cab. They can't actually produce any measurements to actually show they are "super". And top of the line FOH cab manufacturers, JBL, Turbosound, Yamaha, Meyers, ... never come out with goofy designs like these bass cab makers try to sell.

 

[Fit4pain]

Raw speakers usually get rated with some kind of standard EIA 426A
Loudspeaker power handling | Eminence Speaker
Most cab makers just take this rated wattage on put it on the label for the cabinet. The original driver manufacturer has got no idea how well the cabinet is going to be made. It just doesn't work out to simply copy the driver rating and say the cabinet is rated the same.

Some honest manufacturers, like Mesa Boogie actually retest the whole design. Up to burn-out of the driver. Actual measurements, not some cheap trick like add the drivers watts up.

Some other cab makers do all kinds of gimmicks like cram as many drivers as possible into a small cab and really end up with a Frankenstein design and sound. They get to say their cab handles kilowatts of power because they add up the individual driver power. Buyers buy into these gimmicks and forever brag about their super cab. They can't actually produce any measurements to actually show they are "super". And top of the line FOH cab manufacturers, JBL, Turbosound, Yamaha, Meyers, ... never come out with goofy designs like these bass cab makers try to sell.

Just curious who are "These" bass cab maker you are talking about.

 

[Rick James]

Just curious who are "These" bass cab maker you are talking about.

Almost all of them. Maximum output in the bass is determined by the cab frequency response and driver displacement, not the voice coil power rating. I doubt you need all the fingers on one hand to count how many cab makers provide that information.
One of the worst drivers ever used in bass cabs was the Eminence Kappa Pro Ten. If all you looked at was the 500 watt voice coil rating it was impressive, especially in a 410 that was rated for 2,000 watts. But it had really poor low frequency response, and the small displacement limited it to only 75 watts of actual useful power handling in the lows. That was never mentioned in any of the advertising for the many cab makers who at one time or another used them.

 

[Bassmec]

"Super Speakers"?.
I have heard of super tweeters.
However if you want a premium lightweight active broadband loudspeaker system that can be seamlessly incorporated into the PA.
Invalid Link Removed

 

[alaskaleftybass]

"Super Speakers"?.
I have heard of super tweeters.
However if you want a premium lightweight active broadband loudspeaker system that can be seamlessly incorporated into the PA.
Invalid Link Removed

Come to think of it now that you mention it-- this seems to be a topic that comes up now and then. But in reality, it's like saying super something because the parameters are never really defined. Just the usual bunch of 'boo-teek' names come up then arguments about published versus real watts. From there it goes into zzzz zzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzz..... but I play along because really at this time I don't have a life and have time to read these threads. Well actually I have a life but it's not the one of my dreams, but hey how many do ...

 

[Bassmec]

Come to think of it now that you mention it-- this seems to be a topic that comes up now and then. But in reality, it's like saying super something because the parameters are never really defined. Just the usual bunch of 'boo-teek' names come up then arguments about published versus real watts. From there it goes into zzzz zzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzz..... but I play along because really at this time I don't have a life and have time to read these threads. Well actually I have a life but it's not the one of my dreams, but hey how many do ...

Having a life is far too limited and transitory to keep reinventing the wheel I have discovered.X

 

[alaskaleftybass]

Having a life is far too limited and transitory to keep reinventing the wheel I have discovered.X

It's very early in Sitka Alaska and I haven't had my second cuppa joe yet so I'm gonna let this one go over my head.......... zoooom............

 

[alaskaleftybass]

Yawwwwwn. I'm gonna stop watching this thread. It's died as much as many of mine LOL

 

[blubass]

This super cab thread is rather interesting.
I've thought about how to describe this very thing to other folks, and the best way I found to explain it is, "If you've felt that an 810 cab is overkill for your usual gigs, then your volume demands have never been enough to warrant needing a super cab".

Most people that have a super cab, are probably only singing praises of that cabs particular tonal qualities, and not taking advantage of it's remarkable power handling.

Barefaced does a fairly good job on their website of explaining the volume of their cabs by comparing them in words to other common speaker configurations.

Since I've been searching for the right super cab/s with the right tonal characteristics, I've run across all kinds of suggestions of what people think will cut it. Most admittedly have never played in hard rock or metal bands, so their recommendations of 110's and 112's stacked are usually laughable at best.

 

[jnewmark]

This super cab thread is rather interesting.
I've thought about how to describe this very thing to other folks, and the best way I found to explain it is, "If you've felt that an 810 cab is overkill for your usual gigs, then your volume demands have never been enough to warrant needing a super cab".

Most people that have a super cab, are probably only singing praises of that cabs particular tonal qualities, and not taking advantage of it's remarkable power handling.

Barefaced does a fairly good job on their website of explaining the volume of their cabs by comparing them in words to other common speaker configurations.

Since I've been searching for the right super cab/s with the right tonal characteristics, I've run across all kinds of suggestions of what people think will cut it. Most admittedly have never played in hard rock or metal bands, so their recommendations of 110's and 112's stacked are usually laughable at best.

You hit the nail on the head. I have never needed that kind of volume in 40 years of playing bass, but was curious about the " super " cabs, or boutique type of cabs. maybe it's just me, but I have mostly been disappointed, tonewise, with these cabs. At volumes I play, I find them to be heavy on the bottom, and too aggressive on top. I've never hit them with more than 400 watts, so I probably never got the real benefit of what they could do. That doesn't mean I don't like a well designed cab, and I actually use one of Dave Green's designs, the Bassic 15. At the volumes I play, which I would call " moderate ", it is the best single 15 cab I've ever played. Is it a " super " cab ? Probably not, but its the BEST cab for my gig situation.

 

[blubass]

You hit the nail on the head. I have never needed that kind of volume in 40 years of playing bass, but was curious about the " super " cabs, or boutique type of cabs. maybe it's just me, but I have mostly been disappointed, tonewise, with these cabs. At volumes I play, I find them to be heavy on the bottom, and too aggressive on top. I've never hit them with more than 400 watts, so I probably never got the real benefit of what they could do. That doesn't mean I don't like a well designed cab, and I actually use one of Dave Green's designs, the Bassic 15. At the volumes I play, which I would call " moderate ", it is the best single 15 cab I've ever played. Is it a " super " cab ? Probably not, but its the BEST cab for my gig situation.

Yep, I agree that tonally many of these cabs don't do what I need them to do. To be fair in regards to the big low end at low volumes, you may want to look into a HPF. They are IMO an absolute necessity, much like a speaker cable or strings on your bass. A compressor could also help with evening out the volume between strings. I actually prefer what the Ampeg SVT210av does. To me, that is a super cab for the tonal spectrum. Ampeg did their homework and hit all the right points for me, albeit, without the power handling to hit the big gigs.