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Surviving a Pay-to-Play Environment (P2P)

#121
whatizitman said:
Well, it clearly is considered more appropriate. When was the last time the media blamed heavy metal for teen suicides? 25+ years now? It's certainly no longer dangerous....
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Whenever my wife and I hear some modern Country song with lyrics about drinking and fornication, I say to her "It's not like that good wholesome Metal that I listened to when I was a kid."
 
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#122
whatizitman said:
Maybe the hardcore/death/cookie monster thing might be a stretch. But I must say that I find the death metal thing...campy to begin with. Please no offense to any TBers who like death metal, but that's kinda how I see it. I think a death metal wedding could work with the right crowd, would be absolutely hilarious.
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"Till DEAAAAAAATTTTTHHHH ... Do You ... PAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRTTTTT!!!! "

Unfortunately Andy Rehfeldt lives on the other side of the country from me; he's the guy to collaborate with judging from his brilliant YouTube projects.
 
#123
Kragnorak said:
This is correct. Weddingocalypse.
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OMG I just googled that expecting to find some metal wedding band, but it was just hashtags about crazy wedding stuff. Someone used the domain for a blog about their wedding plans.

I'm so doing this. Just got to finish every other project I started last week. Dammit. And still moving in to new house this week, too. OK so it's gonna be a little while. But WEDDINGEFFINGOCALYPSE is sooooo happening this year, beaches.
 
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#124
jive1 said:
Absolutely. Here's a question that's rarely asked....
After all the work your band has done to help out the headliner, what does the headliner do for you? In most cases absolutely nothing, not even a handshake or a quick listen to your band.

Take a look at the headliners at most P2P places. Most of those acts are on their way down, not up. The time where they had national significance has long past, and when they did, it was probably in a niche market anyway. Some of these bands haven't written any new material in over a decade and are riding on the recognition of their one-hit-wonder. Some of these acts have more name than game, but name recognition can go along way. Thus people will want to say they opened for them, even if it means shelling out some bucks to do it.

You have 1-10 local bands hustling their @$$3$ off to sell tickets to fund the headliner's guaranteed $2-10,000 while the locals get nothing or negative. The guarantee for the headliner that evening could amount to the total profit of each band's entire existence combined. If the headliner and venue are so great, then why do they need the local band to sell tickets? The headliner probably already has a website where you can buy a ticket, and they should have a greater reach than the local bands do. They should have way more likes on Facebook, more album sales, etc. With all that being the case, why put the burden on the local band to draw?

Because, the reality is that these headliners often need the local bands for the same reason that the locals pay money to open for them. The headliner needs exposure too, and they also want to expand their fan base. Chances are that the act's newest album isn't getting much play either, or the band is a new iteration that only has 1 or 2 original core members. The band may not have written any new material in ages and/or they have pretty much disappeared from any type of airwave.

Local bands should not discount their value to national acts. There's no doubt in my mind that the resurgence of acts like Journey and Bon Jovi had to do with their songs being cover band standards. There's no doubt in my mind that the resurgence of some acts out of the ashes, or move up the ladder are due to the following they developed via the fans of local acts that opened for them.

P2P has the elements of an abusive relationship. The abuser makes the victim feel worthless, and that the abuser is the only one that can really take care of them. In spite of all the abuse, there is a random silver lining once in a while to keep the victim roped in for more abuse, and the cycle continues. But the reality is that the abuser needs the victim more than he/she lets on, because without a victim, they have absolutely no power. Unfortunately in the music business, there is an overabundance of eager victims.
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The only reason I ever went to see LA Guns was because my friend's 80's-era hair metal tribute band was opening for them. What you speak is truth.
 
#125
itsalljustaride said:
The only reason I ever went to see LA Guns was because my friend's 80's-era hair metal tribute band was opening for them. What you speak is truth.
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In fact, I think MOST of the people at that show had come because of his band, and one other local'ish band, not because of LA Guns. I also don't know the scheme that venue runs, so I don't know if it was P2P or not. Wouldn't surprise me though.
 
#127
DwaynieAD said:
Here's an interesting aside that I tell to the bands my friends are in. In the situation I outlined earlier they would need to sell 80 tickets to put 100 dollars in the band fund. I always tell them, if you can sell 80 ten dollar tickets you could rent a fire hall, a pa, and pay two bands besides your own and still come out above that 100 dollars. Just food for thought.
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I think there are plenty of bar owners that would be absolutely ecstatic if a band brought in 80 people that spent that $10 ticket on beer. In that case, instead of getting abused, you'd get thanked and rebooked.

You know what I'd like to see.....
An entire roster of local bands on the bill of a P2P show to decide to just keep the money from ticket sales, and do the show somewhere else. I'm sure there's some legal issues, but if there was a way to do it, I'd love to watch it happen. The 5 bands on the bill, minus the headliner, sell 300 tickets for $10 each. On the night of the show, none of the bands show up. Why, because they called a local bar/restaurant/etc. and told them that they have 300 folks who are financially committed to coming to their show. They even gave the venue $1000 to use their PA and lights, and to pay any additional staff/security that might be needed. The owner sees dollar signs in his eyes and cash registers ringing in his ears, and happily hosts the local bands. He has a banner night, and says lets do this again! He happily gives each band $300, because he made over $6K in liquor sales that night. So each band pockets $700 each for the same show they would get $0 for. While one bar is making money hand over fist, the P2P venue is empty until the headliner starts. Because the local bands didn't show, the headliner plays to a small crowd. The P2P venue has to pay out of pocket on a losing night to the headliner because of a binding contract.
Rinse, lather, repeat............
 
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#129
jive1 said:
I think there are plenty of bar owners that would be absolutely ecstatic if a band brought in 80 people that spent that $10 ticket on beer. In that case, instead of getting abused, you'd get thanked and rebooked.

You know what I'd like to see.....
An entire roster of local bands on the bill of a P2P show to decide to just keep the money from ticket sales, and do the show somewhere else. I'm sure there's some legal issues, but if there was a way to do it, I'd love to watch it happen. The 5 bands on the bill, minus the headliner, sell 300 tickets for $10 each. On the night of the show, none of the bands show up. Why, because they called a local bar/restaurant/etc. and told them that they have 300 folks who are financially committed to coming to their show. They even gave the venue $1000 to use their PA and lights, and to pay any additional staff/security that might be needed. The owner sees dollar signs in his eyes and cash registers ringing in his ears, and happily hosts the local bands. He has a banner night, and says lets do this again! He happily gives each band $300, because he made over $6K in liquor sales that night. So each band pockets $700 each for the same show they would get $0 for. While one bar is making money hand over fist, the P2P venue is empty until the headliner starts. Because the local bands didn't show, the headliner plays to a small crowd. The P2P venue has to pay out of pocket on a losing night to the headliner because of a binding contract.
Rinse, lather, repeat............
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It's been talked about by several bands that I'm friends with the members of.
 
#130
jive1 said:
I think there are plenty of bar owners that would be absolutely ecstatic if a band brought in 80 people that spent that $10 ticket on beer. In that case, instead of getting abused, you'd get thanked and rebooked.
...........
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That's why I never understand the door prices for smaller shows. Wouldn't venues rather people have that cash to spend at the bar and on food? I guess once they have the money they don't like paying out to the bands that helped attract that night's crowd?
 

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