Sustain - Is it Overrated?

[chris_b]

Every note on every instrument requires sustain to enable it to make music. So sustain is not overrated, but is as important as being in tune.

The real question is how much sustain. There are as many answers to that question as there are players.

 

[Gothic]

Drinking game: down a shot for every time a spinal tap reference showed up in this thread.

On the subject, I never needed more sustain than I had available from any bass I owned, so... I don't know. It's properly rated?

 

[lug]

My main concern is that my bass can sustain the rests I play.

 

[MegaSwing]

I’m not exactly sure how sustain could be overrated, since it is a sign of a structurally well-integrated instrument. Whether a player uses the instrument for its sustain is entirely another matter.

 

[Andrew 1976 Ibanez 2353]

So I’ve been playing for around 10 or 11 years now and have been a TalkBass junkie for pretty much the entire time. I’ve had around 20-25 different basses during this timeframe from $300-$400 models all the up to ones in the $2,500 range. With all those basses I’m not sure I’ve ever had one that truly (by definition) didn’t have at least one dead spot. Obviously some were more pronounced than others. That said one of thing I’ve learned with playing is the importance of your technique especially in the sense of muting strings so you don’t get the sympathetic vibration string noise (I.e. playing cleanly). I play primarily with my fingers so it’s usually some variation of the floating thumb technique. My point and question is this, it seems like controlling the dynamics and/or unwanted sustain/ringing of the wrong notes is more important than sustain and yet it seems we fixate on finding the unicorn bass where each note rings out perfectly on every fret on every string. I get the importance of sustain from a guitars perspective, but do we overrate sustain when it comes to bass? For example, so many of or 60’s and 70’s bass heroes used flats and stuck sponges under the strings close to the bridge. That seems to suggest sustain wasn’t at all important to them. Why then has it become so important to us?

Ross - I hear you. Right now I am simply with headphones on; working on my technique and getting my chops up. I put some sponge under my strings and LOVE the way it feels - and SOUNDS. I am not sure if I am hampering my technique - or not... The bounce and tone I get is just awesome. I must try this out in front of a group to understand whether or not to make it a once-in-a-while thing... or not.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

So I’ve been playing for around 10 or 11 years now and have been a TalkBass junkie for pretty much the entire time. I’ve had around 20-25 different basses during this timeframe from $300-$400 models all the up to ones in the $2,500 range. With all those basses I’m not sure I’ve ever had one that truly (by definition) didn’t have at least one dead spot. Obviously some were more pronounced than others. That said one of thing I’ve learned with playing is the importance of your technique especially in the sense of muting strings so you don’t get the sympathetic vibration string noise (I.e. playing cleanly). I play primarily with my fingers so it’s usually some variation of the floating thumb technique. My point and question is this, it seems like controlling the dynamics and/or unwanted sustain/ringing of the wrong notes is more important than sustain and yet it seems we fixate on finding the unicorn bass where each note rings out perfectly on every fret on every string. I get the importance of sustain from a guitars perspective, but do we overrate sustain when it comes to bass? For example, so many of or 60’s and 70’s bass heroes used flats and stuck sponges under the strings close to the bridge. That seems to suggest sustain wasn’t at all important to them. Why then has it become so important to us?

Hard Rock, metal and even ballads at times a 2 measure or more continuous note. Sure, studio tricks and compression can exaggerate sustain, but it sure is nice to have the single plucked note ring strong and long when called for without assistance.

 

[Swingin]

I’ve just always wondered where all of these songs are that are using long tones that need great sustain.

 

[Alan Schefsky]

I think the discussion here should be more about being a better musician on a guitar (bass or regular) for other venues. Only bowed string instruments can do the same things as a wind instruments because of the bow. On guitar some players want to have sustained notes without double picking or strumming but then they cannot control change in volume or certain articulations (fp and accents for example). You can use the volume knob or a volume foot pedal to some extent but it ain't the same thing. When I play bass guitar in concert bands and orchestras I have to be very careful to play as close to how the music is scored. There is always some degree of compromise. Playing in pop bands (rock, jazz, country, etc) is less critical because the music is written mainly for guitar (and mostly loud). Sustain is then only for effect.

 

[lat]

Drinking game: down a shot for every time a spinal tap reference showed up in this thread.

My sponsor would not be amused...

lol, JK, My sponsor would be telling me to hurry up with the next shot, if I had a sponsor...

 

[chadds]

I had a first gen PRS bass. Ten top birds and it would sustain for 30 sec min. An engineer ran out of the control room to get another engineer to hear it. Ironically it wasn’t the best most musical bass I’ve had or heard by a long shot! It went to a collector.

Sustain for me would be only part of a very lively bass. A lively bass is asking you to find music anywhere on it.

 

[Whitebeard]

George Martin. IMO, compression enabling all notes equal intensity and duration can definitely affect the way a player creates. I think it is best achieved using a quality Compressor.

 

[2manynotes]

Sustain is essentialllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.
l

 

[bogie1519]

I would have to say that some times yes.
But it's only needed during a special section of a song
Or at the end when the tune is over imho

 

[rzero]

For me, sustain is less about how long a note actually rings out, and more about tone. Even on a passage with staccato eighth notes, a bass with high sustain will sound different than a bass with low sustain. For me it is a major factor in modern vs. vintage bass tone.

 

[Ian Lewis]

So I’ve been playing for around 10 or 11 years now and have been a TalkBass junkie for pretty much the entire time. I’ve had around 20-25 different basses during this timeframe from $300-$400 models all the up to ones in the $2,500 range. With all those basses I’m not sure I’ve ever had one that truly (by definition) didn’t have at least one dead spot. Obviously some were more pronounced than others. That said one of thing I’ve learned with playing is the importance of your technique especially in the sense of muting strings so you don’t get the sympathetic vibration string noise (I.e. playing cleanly). I play primarily with my fingers so it’s usually some variation of the floating thumb technique. My point and question is this, it seems like controlling the dynamics and/or unwanted sustain/ringing of the wrong notes is more important than sustain and yet it seems we fixate on finding the unicorn bass where each note rings out perfectly on every fret on every string. I get the importance of sustain from a guitars perspective, but do we overrate sustain when it comes to bass? For example, so many of or 60’s and 70’s bass heroes used flats and stuck sponges under the strings close to the bridge. That seems to suggest sustain wasn’t at all important to them. Why then has it become so important to us?

Sustain is over-rated. Otherwise why would a 60's Precision with dead flats and a skinny little bridge be so popular, even now?

 

[Brad Johnson]

Play a few church services, where you underscore someone speaking for a few minutes - adding some low end to a pad that the keyboard player is holding for minutes without any effort. You'll suddenly know thing like which of your basses have more sustain on the open A string, and which have more sustain on the 5th fret of the E string.

Yes, I know for some folks, sustain isn't an issue. For what I do, knowing how to get as much as you can, and how to work around the limits you do have, is a very important part of what I do on a weekly basis.

Great example. I'd much rather have it than need it. And I've spent enough time learning how to mute for it to not be a problem.

 

[bleedingfingers]

Depends on what you are playing also think you amp has a lot to do with it .
Other than that sometimes a sound tech will compress the bass too much for me making the note fade quicker than I would like trying to make me sound like another kick drum or a Pre bass with flats .
Those guys are just lazy and want to set you and forget you .
I do tech work myself and if I wanted to sound that way I would bring my Pbass strung with flats with a foam mute .

 

[Stumbo]

Sustain is overrated in a Funk band.

 

[Bill Powers]

Sustain isn't everything, but I still get a kick out of popping a harmonic and taking my hands off the TRBX while band members listen to that droning sustain go on seemingly forever.

 

[micguy]

Other than that sometimes a sound tech will compress the bass too much for me making the note fade quicker than I would like

Compression doesn't make notes fade quicker - it adds sustain. Your tech may be doing something else that's killing your sustain (like adding a gate), but compression isn't the culprit for what you describe.