Sweetwater Scam

[Danny O Danny]

This is the thing that strikes me as disingenuous about bradjonesbass's response on behalf of Sweetwater: "This damage was not present when it was originally shipped, nor was it mentioned by the customer as a reason for return. The shipping box had no noticeable damage to it upon return, so we can only assume the customer caused the damage in the short time he possessed the instrument."

The obvious other possibility, that is being overlooked (intentionally?) in this explanation, is that the damage occurred after Sweetwater received the bass back. That could certainly explain why the ding was not "mentioned by the customer as a reason for return." I assume Sweetwater does not have an unboxing video from when they received the bass back?

A third, far less likely, possibility is that neither Sweetwater or the customer noticed the ding that was already there when the bass originally shipped out. There have been plenty of stories on TB (I have a few myself) of Sweetwater not catching problems with instruments prior to shipping out to customers, despite their much touted "55-point inspection."

IMHO, since there are clearly at least two contending possibilities about where the damage occurred, it behooves Sweetwater to adopt a "customer comes first" orientation rather than a "must be the customer's fault" attitude. I'm about to make a significant purchase of keyboard equipment, and this gives me pause about purchasing it from Sweetwater.

 

[Bass Viking]

Well, YMMV, but I' m not returning a $3500 bass that I like for a saddle you can buy for $16 (with height screws), and replace in 5 minutes. I'm thinking Sweetwater would have stepped up and credited $20 for the required repair (or provided the part).

Same here. Or try a different size allen key (which may have been the problem ). And I wouldn't give up after only 20 minutes.

 

[JenderBazzFass]

Since Sweetwater has photos of the bass going out without the ding and coming back with it, that leaves only the buyer, the person the buyer paid to pack it, or the person who unpacked it at Sweetwater as having been able to have caused the damage.

And since the reason for the return, the supposedly stripped screws on both the "pole piece" and the bridge screw(s) turned out to be false, it seems hard to believe the story about the ding not being there when the bass was shipped back.

Perhaps the two parties should just not do business in the future. Sweetwater will be just fine and the buyer can shop elsewhere, and some lucky bassist will get a deal on a bass that has no issues outside of a body blemish, which are easy to create on those types of finishes anyway. (and as a Sadowsky it's probably a killer bass)

 

[bradjonesbass]

You’re going to have more returns when you don’t have physical stores. Don’t throw all buyers into the “poor financial choices” category. Sweetwater sells online and states in their return policy “If you are not satisfied with any new product, for any reason, you may return it for a refund of the purchase price or an in-house credit.”

A buyer has to pay full price to even try a bass. Sweetwater has the benefit to them of lower overhead with not paying for a network of physical locations, but you want the customer to just keep what they purchased even if they don’t like it? Someone mentioned a few years ago that Sweetwater charges the 3% processing fee to the sales engineer. If that’s the case, the problem isn’t with the customer, the problem is with Sweetwater’s internal policies.

I’m fortunate to have Chuck Levin’s nearby. I can try anything I want before buying, get great pricing, and El Pollo Rico (best chicken in the world) is nearby. So Sweetwater is really just a place for cables and straps, so returns from me would be if they were defective only.

Returns are just the price of doing business online. It’s cheaper than running stores everywhere. Stores have kids slapping on basses making videos for TikTok, online stores have higher returns. Higher returns are cheaper and you charge shipping back to the customer.

The return policy also clearly states if the return is for anything other than a defect, the buyer pays both outbound and return shipping fees. Yes, the CC fees come out of our commissions, and it's also a lot higher than 3% now. Depending on the card company, it's anywhere from 4.5% to 6%. Shipping costs also come out of our commissions. A return hits harder coming out than we made on the initial sale. Actual defects are one thing - if the screws actually were stripped, there would have been no shipping fees. We have a culture and policy in place that a tech damaging a guitar would face no punishment at all, not even a write-up or verbal warning, if they "told on themselves". We encourage it. Now, getting caught lying about it would be taken very seriously around here and not tolerated at all.

In store basses generally sell for Demo prices, ie lower than basses that ship directly out of the warehouse having never been touched by anyone but a guitar tech. Other stores sell floor models at new prices. We do not.

I have reached out to the customer, but this decision was made long before he posted here, so no it is not "punitive" in any way.

 

[Gorilla Monsoon]

The catch here from my perspective, having read the entire thread was the supposition that the bass not only was not dinged up, but the threads for the bridge pickup were “stripped”. There is no way to know whether or not this bass was previously returned based on this thread. You really have to work on those wood screws in order to compromise the pre drilled holes in the body; you'd have to absolutely bury the pickup and then some. In doing so, the heads of those screws would undoubtedly be nicked up. I see no mention of this. The use of the pejorative “Scam” bothers me here, I'm sorry. Please correct me here if i am in error, but this jumps out to me. This is something that would not be affected by shipping and handling.

 

[bradjonesbass]

Im not necessarily a fanboy of SW. i respect the OP’s experience and it does come across as troubling. That isn't lost. Believe me, the folks @ SW have taken note. My rep cold called me yesterday and asked me about a recent purchase. He’s never done that before. I don’t think it was a coincidence. If you have a good experience with a retailer, you might pass it on to a couple of people but if you have a powerfully negative experience with one, you’ll shout about it from the rooftops. It is human nature. It was not my objective to derail this thread, but I’m up on the roof about my dealings with this retailer in particular and i think it illustrates the mistaken concept that smaller independent dealers are necessarily better than online giants because their sales base is local, and thus superior in customer service. This simply is not the case, at least not for me. It has been put to me that my reaction was unhinged, but the result speaks for itself. I walked out of the store with my strings. The salesman knew he had them, knew i had paid for them, and he chose to poke the bear.

Your rep is supposed to be calling you after your orders... That's half of his job. It had nothing to do with this.

 

[Gorilla Monsoon]

Your rep is supposed to be calling you after your orders... That's half of his job. It had nothing to do with this.

He does just that, but has always texted. Thank you for your interest. The order was last month. Perhaps it was just him reaching out, probably has zero to do with this thread, i just found it odd, to the point where i immediately thought of this damning thread, which i had yet to comment on until the mention of another local retailer, just today. He knows im on TB. I always enjoy talking to him, he’s been a stellar contact.

 

[Gorilla Monsoon]

Also, the OP’s claim that he “ took the bass out for a total of maybe 20 minutes” strikes me odd. I’d have to do a considerable amount of plinking around before id consider looking at pickup height. That is typically a finishing step in setup. I’ve got some reservations about things here.

 

[bradjonesbass]

He does just that, but has always texted. Thank you for your interest. The order was last month. Perhaps it was just him reaching out, probably has zero to do with this thread, i just found it odd, to the point where i immediately thought of this damning thread, which i had yet to comment on until the mention of another local retailer, just today. He knows im on TB. I always enjoy talking to him, he’s been a stellar contact.

I enjoy working in this capacity and I imagine 99% of my customers would tell you similar things about me. That's what really bothers me about this whole thing. I take great care of my customers. The OP misrepresented several things and the only reason I posted anything was to defend my good name. We make a good living here and a relatively small commission hit isn't going to mean much in the grand scheme of things. I was more than happy to take the return, thinking the bridge screws were actually stripped. They weren't, therefore we followed the Returns Policy which I already posted on the shipping and on the condition of the bass. The ding and the other scratches were not there when we shipped it - verifiable in the Guitar Gallery photos - and were not mentioned by the purchaser. They were present when it was returned to us. That's the bottom line.

 

[JKos]

verifiable in the Guitar Gallery photos

And nothing could possibly happen to the bass between gallery photos being taken and the bass being shipped? That just doesn’t seem to work as solid evidence.

I’m not saying something fishy isn’t going on.

 

[bradjonesbass]

And nothing could possibly happen to the bass between gallery photos being taken and the bass being shipped? That just doesn’t seem to work as solid evidence.

I’m not saying something fishy isn’t going on.

Highly unlikely once you've seen our processes. The bag travels with the bass in it and then in the shipping box from the photo station to final packing wherein the entire package is re-packed into a second box.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

The return policy also clearly states if the return is for anything other than a defect, the buyer pays both outbound and return shipping fees. Yes, the CC fees come out of our commissions, and it's also a lot higher than 3% now. Depending on the card company, it's anywhere from 4.5% to 6%. Shipping costs also come out of our commissions. A return hits harder coming out than we made on the initial sale. Actual defects are one thing - if the screws actually were stripped, there would have been no shipping fees. We have a culture and policy in place that a tech damaging a guitar would face no punishment at all, not even a write-up or verbal warning, if they "told on themselves". We encourage it. Now, getting caught lying about it would be taken very seriously around here and not tolerated at all.

In store basses generally sell for Demo prices, ie lower than basses that ship directly out of the warehouse having never been touched by anyone but a guitar tech. Other stores sell floor models at new prices. We do not.

I have reached out to the customer, but this decision was made long before he posted here, so no it is not "punitive" in any way.

That’s kinda BS. Sales shouldn’t be funding returns out of their paychecks. Keep records. That seems like a potential class action lawsuit.

 

[bradjonesbass]

That’s kinda BS. Sales shouldn’t be funding returns out of their paychecks. Keep records. That seems like a potential class action lawsuit.

Why would we keep the commissions when the product was returned?

 

[bootstrap]

Why would we keep the commissions when the product was returned?

Correct. Military recruiters (a different sort of sales engineer) don't get credit unless the candidate completes boot camp.

 

[Jaco Taco]

I don't want to sound like a shill for Sweetwater, but I've bought multiple basses, keyboards, guitars, and guitar effects from them and they've all been great. And I think their customer reps are fantastic. Not saying something bad can't happen, but I doubt they are out there intentionally "scamming" people.

 

[bradjonesbass]

This is the thing that strikes me as disingenuous about bradjonesbass's response on behalf of Sweetwater: "This damage was not present when it was originally shipped, nor was it mentioned by the customer as a reason for return. The shipping box had no noticeable damage to it upon return, so we can only assume the customer caused the damage in the short time he possessed the instrument."

The obvious other possibility, that is being overlooked (intentionally?) in this explanation, is that the damage occurred after Sweetwater received the bass back. That could certainly explain why the ding was not "mentioned by the customer as a reason for return." I assume Sweetwater does not have an unboxing video from when they received the bass back?

A third, far less likely, possibility is that neither Sweetwater or the customer noticed the ding that was already there when the bass originally shipped out. There have been plenty of stories on TB (I have a few myself) of Sweetwater not catching problems with instruments prior to shipping out to customers, despite their much touted "55-point inspection."

IMHO, since there are clearly at least two contending possibilities about where the damage occurred, it behooves Sweetwater to adopt a "customer comes first" orientation rather than a "must be the customer's fault" attitude. I'm about to make a significant purchase of keyboard equipment, and this gives me pause about purchasing it from Sweetwater.

I probably worded that poorly. We have cameras everywhere and a culture and policy that a tech turning themselves in for an accident like that wouldn't be disciplined at all, but trying to cover it up would be grounds for dismissal. It came straight from receiving to the workstation of the returns inspector in the sealed package, only opened by the tech, then put back in the bag and box to be transported for pictures. I don't see that as a possibility at all. I've continued to reach out to the customer to resolve this and have gotten no response at all.

 

[JKos]

Highly unlikely once you've seen our processes. The bag travels with the bass in it and then in the shipping box from the photo station to final packing wherein the entire package is re-packed into a second box.

So the inspection is not done just prior to shipping?

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Why would we keep the commissions when the product was returned?

Commission would not be credited certainly, but you were saying that the sales engineer is hit for the processing fees unless I read your post wrong.

 

[Danny O Danny]

I probably worded that poorly. We have cameras everywhere and a culture and policy that a tech turning themselves in for an accident like that wouldn't be disciplined at all, but trying to cover it up would be grounds for dismissal. It came straight from receiving to the workstation of the returns inspector in the sealed package, only opened by the tech, then put back in the bag and box to be transported for pictures. I don't see that as a possibility at all. I've continued to reach out to the customer to resolve this and have gotten no response at all.

That is helpful to know. Thanks for the explanation!

 

[theduke1]

I am sorry you have had a problem. I have worked with Sweetwater for many years without an issue. I have only returned one item in all that time. When they opened the return all that was in the box was the shredded paper I used for packing. when I talked to my sales rep I told him that I had packed it and said I would eat the cost as I packed it and they did not get their items back. He said absolutely not. Their shipping label have coverage and issued a refund. I hope things can be worked out for you
Duke