Sweetwater Scam

[davec]

Agree the source of the dent is at issue. Given that ambiguity, the fact that SW reduced the price of the bass by only $358, and they charged the buyer shipping both ways, a $600 damage tax seems egregious.

Full disclosure I work at Sweetwater, I know and respect the Sales Engineer, I too and a sales engineer. I have a general reputation as not giving a flying fudge.

A few things that generally get lost, free shipping should be stated as free to you shipping, because FedEx, UPS, et al doing do anything for free!
card fees are a real thing and it doesn’t matter if visa Mastercard whomever is putting money on or taking money off of your card the retailer is going to pay.
Although that is the “markdown” the cost of the instrument is not even actually the same it’s higher, secondary receiving, inspection, photos etc.
The call is going to go something exactly like this “hey I’m looking at this model, what is MY price? “
Sales engineer:”yeah let’s see what I can do… how about $X
“Cool, tell me about the demo (which cost the same, has more processing and originality cost the same) it’s $358 less if we apply the same amount off that would be $x can you do that? on and I want to use my card at 0% interest for 36 months (remember how shipping companies don’t do anything for free, neither do credit card companies)
The reality is ( I’m guessing the SW gives away about $650 away in candy and stickers on any given day. I miss the days when I bought a bass you actually owned it, unless something was wrong there were no returns. At least for me you had to commit to what you wanted and were usually happier with your decision… well except for that Samick j bass I bought in 1992, my emotions got away from me I couldn’t afford it, and I shouldn’t have bought it. Wish I could have returned that one, oh well

 

[hamertek98]

What would happen if someone accidentally put a ding on anything inside a store and it was witnessed by a store employee? Most stores will pull anything out of the stockroom to let a potential buyer check it out, and I'm sure mishaps have happened.
I know.... apples and bowling balls.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Full disclosure I work at Sweetwater, I know and respect the Sales Engineer, I too and a sales engineer. I have a general reputation as not giving a flying fudge.

A few things that generally get lost, free shipping should be stated as free to you shipping, because FedEx, UPS, et al doing do anything for free!
card fees are a real thing and it doesn’t matter if visa Mastercard whomever is putting money on or taking money off of your card the retailer is going to pay.
Although that is the “markdown” the cost of the instrument is not even actually the same it’s higher, secondary receiving, inspection, photos etc.
The call is going to go something exactly like this “hey I’m looking at this model, what is MY price? “
Sales engineer:”yeah let’s see what I can do… how about $X
“Cool, tell me about the demo (which cost the same, has more processing and originality cost the same) it’s $358 less if we apply the same amount off that would be $x can you do that? on and I want to use my card at 0% interest for 36 months (remember how shipping companies don’t do anything for free, neither do credit card companies)
The reality is ( I’m guessing the SW gives away about $650 away in candy and stickers on any given day. I miss the days when I bought a bass you actually owned it, unless something was wrong there were no returns. At least for me you had to commit to what you wanted and were usually happier with your decision… well except for that Samick j bass I bought in 1992, my emotions got away from me I couldn’t afford it, and I shouldn’t have bought it. Wish I could have returned that one, oh well

When you bought a bass and you owned it, were you able to play it before you bought it? How does that work with online retail?

 

[davec]

What would happen if someone accidentally put a ding on anything inside a store and it was witnessed by a store employee? Most stores will pull anything out of the stockroom to let a potential buyer check it out, and I'm sure mishaps have happened.
I know.... apples and bowling balls.

It depends. If it was an accident, you would probably be asked to be a little more careful if anything at all. If you were wearing a big belt buckle and damaging multiple instruments after being asked to be more careful (guessing because I have never seen this happen) you would probably be asked to leave.

 

[davec]

When you bought a bass and you owned it, were you able to play it before you bought it? How does that work with online retail?

out of all that, you landed on that.
Obviously in the case of online retail you can’t play before you buy, however, Does it play as expected? Was it described accurately? Do you really need 30 days or 45 to make a decision? Or does that extra time sow the seeds of doubt? Or worse allow for poor financial choices.
When anyone here sells a bass on the classifieds here can the buyer play it?
I once had a buyer of a personal instrument of mine sold on Reverb, send back a Ken Smith, because he didn’t like the way it felt! Guess that it felt like? A KEN SMITH! My point was and still is, that before online retail, before GC, and Ash return policies did not really exist, and I honestly think we were happier. Obviously in an online environment you are going to need to have a return policy, you should, but I would argue that going in with the mind set that it is yours to own, feels better than buy to try…

 

[Dynacord]

Obviously in the case of online retail you can’t play before you buy, however, Does it play as expected? Was it described accurately? Do you really need 30 days or 45 to make a decision? Or does that extra time sow the seeds of doubt? Or worse allow for poor financial choices.

I think what places like Bass Central in Florida (and others I've dealt with in the past like the now defunct Bass Northwest) do is pretty reasonable: 48 hour approval/inspection period from receipt. Any issues should be obvious within that time frame (assuming warranty for things like warpage if a new instrument) and allows for being able to assess if it's an instrument one likes the feel and playability, etc of or not.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

out of all that, you landed on that.
Obviously in the case of online retail you can’t play before you buy, however, Does it play as expected? Was it described accurately? Do you really need 30 days or 45 to make a decision? Or does that extra time sow the seeds of doubt? Or worse allow for poor financial choices.
When anyone here sells a bass on the classifieds here can the buyer play it?
I once had a buyer of a personal instrument of mine sold on Reverb, send back a Ken Smith, because he didn’t like the way it felt! Guess that it felt like? A KEN SMITH! My point was and still is, that before online retail, before GC, and Ash return policies did not really exist, and I honestly think we were happier. Obviously in an online environment you are going to need to have a return policy, you should, but I would argue that going in with the mind set that it is yours to own, feels better than buy to try…

You’re going to have more returns when you don’t have physical stores. Don’t throw all buyers into the “poor financial choices” category. Sweetwater sells online and states in their return policy “If you are not satisfied with any new product, for any reason, you may return it for a refund of the purchase price or an in-house credit.”

A buyer has to pay full price to even try a bass. Sweetwater has the benefit to them of lower overhead with not paying for a network of physical locations, but you want the customer to just keep what they purchased even if they don’t like it? Someone mentioned a few years ago that Sweetwater charges the 3% processing fee to the sales engineer. If that’s the case, the problem isn’t with the customer, the problem is with Sweetwater’s internal policies.

I’m fortunate to have Chuck Levin’s nearby. I can try anything I want before buying, get great pricing, and El Pollo Rico (best chicken in the world) is nearby. So Sweetwater is really just a place for cables and straps, so returns from me would be if they were defective only.

Returns are just the price of doing business online. It’s cheaper than running stores everywhere. Stores have kids slapping on basses making videos for TikTok, online stores have higher returns. Higher returns are cheaper and you charge shipping back to the customer.

 

[Bonafide]

out of all that, you landed on that.
Obviously in the case of online retail you can’t play before you buy, however, Does it play as expected? Was it described accurately? Do you really need 30 days or 45 to make a decision? Or does that extra time sow the seeds of doubt? Or worse allow for poor financial choices.

Everybody is different, and there seems to be a lot of auto-biographical comments here in this thread without alot of perspective. Your analysis, while focused on the low-hanging fruit of the issue, is incomplete and represents the minority of online buyers. Online businesses would be out of business otherwise.

Stores don't get to have it both ways. 'We are committed to your satisfaction and want you to be 100% satisfied and happy with your purchase". "You are safe to shop with us - no questions asked - If you are not happy, we are not happy" etc... and then curse those that made their purchase with that in mind. It's basic intelligence to utilize company policy and that should be taken as a genuine service.

Play as expected? Expected as what? It's not a clear answer. A lot of players don't know the specs they like and can't filter out instruments in advance and are surprised at how different an instrument sounds or feels (despite reputation perhaps) when they get it and play it for the first time. Many will maximize the return period to see if it works for them, particularly when they think they are supposed to like it. In many cases, the longer they have it, the greater the chance of keeping it. The store knows that. How can we judge somebody else's process? Our own mindset doesn't fit every scenario and it's not our place to manage or judge another person's lifestyle.

Poor financial choices? Again, the low-hanging fruit of the issue in this thread. Many of us are not budget-restricted or at the least very responsible. And 'poor financial' choice can be replaced with 'smart financial choice' when we make an educated decision to return an item that is not going to work for us. 'Buyers regret' is real of course, but it is often fueled by the fact that the item we bought is lackluster and does not match the value. Either way, it is built into the 'no questions asked, 100% satisfaction guarantee' return policy and does not need to be justified.

When anyone here sells a bass on the classifieds here can the buyer play it?

Comparing the used private market and its culture to buying new from a corporate market with a clear, encouraged return policy is again, incomplete and not applicable here.

 

[Geri O]

I think what places like Bass Central in Florida (and others I've dealt with in the past like the now defunct Bass Northwest) do is pretty reasonable: 48 hour approval/inspection period from receipt. Any issues should be obvious within that time frame (assuming warranty for things like warpage if a new instrument) and allows for being able to assess if it's an instrument one likes the feel and playability, etc of or not.

That’s reasonable for sure.

Hell, any bass I’ve ever sold as used had a hand-written note in in the case stating my 48-hour return offer if the buyer didn’t like the bass for any reason.

And no buyer ever took me up on that offer.

 

[Relayer71]

Unfortunately, this is the shape of things to come. As @MultiScaleMale states, brick and mortar stores are closing.

We kind of did it to ourselves, in a way.

We enjoy the convenience of ordering from the comfort of our sofas/beds and in our jammies/nightgowns, especially when a retailer takes great pictures and lists instrument weights.

COVID exacerbated things, when you really couldn't get to brick and mortar. Something had to give.

As for online retailers - they (some) might be saving money on shelf/showroom space, but I imagine returns are through the roof.

And I know from experience that if you're keeping inventory in an offsite (rented) facility, prices went up ridiculously the last two years (also COVD-related), not to mention transportation costs. It's a harsh retail environment, currently.

 

[gln1955]

I think what places like Bass Central in Florida (and others I've dealt with in the past like the now defunct Bass Northwest) do is pretty reasonable: 48 hour approval/inspection period from receipt. Any issues should be obvious within that time frame (assuming warranty for things like warpage if a new instrument) and allows for being able to assess if it's an instrument one likes the feel and playability, etc of or not.

Anything more than 48 hours is just asking the customer to take it out on gig and then there's no way it gets returned in pristine condition.

A significant re-stocking fee, say 15%, would discourage people from ordering on a whim. Maybe it gets waived if the item is returned pristine in its original packaging. I'm sure that would lead to complaint threads on here anyway....

 

[buldog5151bass]

Anything more than 48 hours is just asking the customer to take it out on gig and then there's no way it gets returned in pristine condition.

A significant re-stocking fee, say 15%, would discourage people from ordering on a whim. Maybe it gets waived if the item is returned pristine in its original packaging. I'm sure that would lead to complaint threads on here anyway....

That is about what you would get back in the days of brick and mortar - you try it, and either like it or not.

If people want to "buy" something in order to try it out, they should be willing to pay a small fee. If you went to a store, it took time, gas, etc.

 

[Bass Viking]

We enjoy the convenience of ordering from the comfort of our sofas/beds and in our jammies/nightgowns, especially when a retailer takes great pictures and lists instrument weights.

In my case I order online out of necessity, not enjoyment. I'd much rather drive my ass to a music store to test drive gear if the store carries it. But I'm well aware there are people who audition gear in a store and then buy online if it's cheaper. That ain't helping!

 

[Gorilla Monsoon]

You’re going to have more returns when you don’t have physical stores. Don’t throw all buyers into the “poor financial choices” category. Sweetwater sells online and states in their return policy “If you are not satisfied with any new product, for any reason, you may return it for a refund of the purchase price or an in-house credit.”

A buyer has to pay full price to even try a bass. Sweetwater has the benefit to them of lower overhead with not paying for a network of physical locations, but you want the customer to just keep what they purchased even if they don’t like it? Someone mentioned a few years ago that Sweetwater charges the 3% processing fee to the sales engineer. If that’s the case, the problem isn’t with the customer, the problem is with Sweetwater’s internal policies.

I’m fortunate to have Chuck Levin’s nearby. I can try anything I want before buying, get great pricing, and El Pollo Rico (best chicken in the world) is nearby. So Sweetwater is really just a place for cables and straps, so returns from me would be if they were defective only.

Returns are just the price of doing business online. It’s cheaper than running stores everywhere. Stores have kids slapping on basses making videos for TikTok, online stores have higher returns. Higher returns are cheaper and you charge shipping back to the customer.

Chuck Levins is the reason i prefer outlets like SW. some years back, i ordered a set of TI strings from them. They did not have them in the store, $95 in 1995, a LOT for strings. Come back in a week i was told…I drove the 2 hour 35 mile trip and endured the Cabin John backup, had to prepay. Next week, i was told, come back then. A month passed. Nothing from them. I called them a dozen times, a month passed before i was told they had them. Made that grueling drive, the clown working the counter told me my strings werent in the store, insisted that we hadn’t spoken. I recognized his voice, it was definitely him. I had talked to him at least 10 times. He…was…odd….I asked to speak to the manager, and suddenly the strings appeared. “Oh, yeah!- the Tomastik Infelds!”…”Now i remember!”….I didnt have my receipt, it had been abundantly clear who i was, etc. They wanted $95 for the strings. I pointed to my vehicle, told them i would outside waiting for the clown to leave that night and when he did, it was going to be on like Donkey Kong. Got my strings. Got home and wanted to talk to corporate, the owner, Chuck himself. WHOMEVER. Oddly enough, got similar treatment from whoever it was. I dont know how they stay in business. Clown outfit. Stores like that are the reason E-Commerce thrives…Give me Sweetwater any day.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Chuck Levins is the reason i prefer outlets like SW. some years back, i ordered a set of TI strings from them. They did not have them in the store, $95 in 1995, a LOT for strings. Come back in a week i was told…I drove the 2 hour 35 mile trip and endured the Cabin John backup, had to prepay. Next week, i was told, come back then. A month passed. Nothing from them. I called them a dozen times, a month passed before i was told they had them. Made that grueling drive, the clown working the counter told me my strings werent in the store, insisted that we hadn’t spoken. I recognized his voice, it was definitely him. I had talked to him at least 10 times. He…was…odd….I asked to speak to the manager, and suddenly the strings appeared. “Oh, yeah!- the Tomastik Infelds!”…”Now i remember!”….I didnt have my receipt, it had been abundantly clear who i was, etc. They wanted $95 for the strings. I pointed to my vehicle, told them i would outside waiting for the clown to leave that night and when he did, it was going to be on like Donkey Kong. Got my strings. Got home and wanted to talk to corporate, the owner, Chuck himself. WHOMEVER. Oddly enough, got similar treatment from whoever it was. I dont know how they stay in business. Clown outfit. Stores like that are the reason E-Commerce thrives…Give me Sweetwater any day.

I’ve had nothing but great experiences there going back to the mid nineties. But if you're threatening people over a set of strings ... maybe time for some self-reflection.

 

[llmontyll]

Chuck Levins is the reason i prefer outlets like SW. some years back, i ordered a set of TI strings from them. They did not have them in the store, $95 in 1995, a LOT for strings. Come back in a week i was told…I drove the 2 hour 35 mile trip and endured the Cabin John backup, had to prepay. Next week, i was told, come back then. A month passed. Nothing from them. I called them a dozen times, a month passed before i was told they had them. Made that grueling drive, the clown working the counter told me my strings werent in the store, insisted that we hadn’t spoken. I recognized his voice, it was definitely him. I had talked to him at least 10 times. He…was…odd….I asked to speak to the manager, and suddenly the strings appeared. “Oh, yeah!- the Tomastik Infelds!”…”Now i remember!”….I didnt have my receipt, it had been abundantly clear who i was, etc. They wanted $95 for the strings. I pointed to my vehicle, told them i would outside waiting for the clown to leave that night and when he did, it was going to be on like Donkey Kong. Got my strings. Got home and wanted to talk to corporate, the owner, Chuck himself. WHOMEVER. Oddly enough, got similar treatment from whoever it was. I dont know how they stay in business. Clown outfit. Stores like that are the reason E-Commerce thrives…Give me Sweetwater any day.

You OK?

 

[Relayer71]

In my case I order online out of necessity, not enjoyment. I'd much rather drive my ass to a music store to test drive gear if the store carries it. But I'm well aware there are people who audition gear in a store and then buy online if it's cheaper. That ain't helping!

Enjoyment is not the same as convenience. I get it, I'd prefer to go to a shop, too. Sometimes there's too much "life stuff" going on to find the time.

It was also much easier when I was in NYC; now, I'm in another state in some small town where the closest music store is a GC that's some miles away (like two towns away).

And hey, if it's cheaper to buy online (and that's not always the case), why not? The stuff that money is made of does indeed grow on trees, but it doesn't grow processed and printed!

But yeah, that ain't helping. Like I said, we do it to ourselves.

I blame the internet! (Which without, we wouldn't be having our deep, life-altering exchanges here on TB)

 

[bootstrap]

I’ve had nothing but great experiences there going back to the mid nineties. But if you're threatening people over a set of strings ... maybe time for some self-reflection.

An unfairly reductionist take on his tale of woe.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

An unfairly reductionist take on his tale of woe.

30 years later? Not so sure....

 

[ericplaysbass]

An unfairly reductionist take on his tale of woe.

Tale of woe? Dude drove out of their way without calling first and showed up without a receipt, then threatened to fight the worker...