Sweetwater Scam

[Bonafide]

Corrado,

I’m really saddened that this has come to this point without you responding to my attempts to reach back out to you. I am the Sales Engineer of record on this transaction and Corrado’s Sales Engineer, and I feel obligated to correct some of the information presented in this thread. The bass was sent to the customer following our inspection and the photos of the bass were included in the emailed invoice for it. There were no defects in the body at that time. The customer called to setup the return stating that the bridge saddle screws were stripped so the return was setup for a full refund, including our covering return shipping. Given that this is a bass on the more expensive side of our catalog. I asked the returns inspection team to double check the screws and ensure they were working and not stripped, as that is something that will need to be fixed should we sell this instrument again in the future.


My team did the reinspection and found that the bridge was fully functional and the screw heads were not stripped, nor were the threads. The saddles were fully adjustable and functional. As such, per our return policy on voluntary “buyer’s regret” returns without defect - Returns & Exchanges | Help Center | Sweetwater - I deducted both outbound shipping and return shipping from the refund – Totaling $141.50. The returns inspection team also informed me they were listing the bass for sale as a Demo due to body damage. The bass can be viewed here - Sadowsky MetroLine 24-fret Modern Bass, Swamp Ash Body, 5-string - Ocean Blue Transparent Satin and includes a closeup photo of the damage in photo number 6. As such, and per our return policy, the price difference between a new bass and a Demo priced bass was deducted from the return - $581. This damage was not present when it was originally shipped, nor was it mentioned by the customer as a reason for return. The shipping box had no noticeable damage to it upon return, so we can only assume the customer caused the damage in the short time he possessed the instrument. I emailed the customer the detailed response to which he replied after hours on Friday. I was out of the office all weekend and then had to handle a family illness matter Monday. I reached out to the customer immediately upon returning to work this morning.

I have built up an outstanding reputation on this forum as well as with my Sweetwater customers. I strive for integrity in my work and personal life as many of the members of this forum can attest, and had hoped this could be resolved directly with the customer, but as he has chosen to take to a public forum to slander me (indirectly) and the terrific company I work for, I had no recourse aside from responding to this thread. I am still more than willing to discuss this personally over the phone, but if you remain unwilling to respond to my emails, phone calls or texts, I will consider this matter closed and will work to find you a new sales engineer who can better help you in the future. I will be out of the office tomorrow, but will be in Thursday, Friday and Saturday this week.

Brad Jones

In a nutshell, you took your 'inspection teams' word over your customers. With all due respect, the ‘inspection team’ could have dented the bass. And of course, it could have happened anywhere along the line. They are covering their own assets as well. Those transparent stained finishes are incredibly soft. I am not saying it was or wasn't, but it could have happened and the customer very well could be innocent and charged a ridiculous return charge. You lost another SW customer over this, hardly seems worth it. It happened to me. It wasn't a dent, it was a bent tuner on a $2200 bass. Inspection team miss? Yes. It was likely the $25k for the year already spent with SW as a professional musician that helped, but the only thing that supported my credibility over the 'inspection team' once they get it back, was my clear unboxing video and pre-pack video.

Despite my very cool salesman, my word was suspect, so my unboxing video was critical as it showed the reality of it. Not to mention, a great deal of over-worked and incompetence that makes up the 'setup team' and inspection team to start with. Who knows how much leaves unchecked? 90% of the instruments I have gotten from Sweetwater (always $2K-5K) were missed. I was told by Ben (guitar technical dept.) at SW that alot of instruments are missed because of the volume. I was told that 3 weeks ago when I received a $2400 nylon with a bad truss rod. There were 6 others already returned from other customers before I got mine. Again unboxing video helped and could not be disputed by the 'inspections team'. The scenario was so unpleasant to deal with, myself and my own team had a candid conversation with Justin Dunbar to let him know why we as a business would no longer be doing business with SW after 22 years as a customer and over $100K worth of purchases. This post echoes close to home.

Regardless of what the truth is here, of which only one person knows, it solidifies my feelings.

 

[Iridescentone]

Huh, it is... BUT it has a very, very similar ding as the one you linked yesterday...
OP's @ $2999:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
"Other" demo @ $3222:

Damn, OP's was marked down more and had less damage! These are clearly two different basses based on the grain pattern, but both have a similar spot of damage...

This is very interesting. I too thought both pics were of the same bass, but clearly they are not. So, identical damage inflicted on identical basses, at the same location on both bass bodies? You know where this is going, right? Someone, somewhere in the chain of possession has mishandled both these basses, either accidentally or deliberately.

Next question. Who would have the opporunity to have been in possession of both basses at any given point in time? The OP of this thread? The same shipping carrier employee working at the same location, who just coincidentally happened to mishandle both basses?

Think about it, there's only one "place of opportunity", and that appears to be somewhere within Sweetwater. They ship items out, and handle returns. Just sayin'....

 

[SwitchGear]

I have purchased new bases and accessories from Sweetwater many times. However, I will not make anymore purchases from them with the track record they have created.

 

[J Wilson]

It's always a crapshoot ordering something as personal as a musical instrument online vs. buying in person, whether from an online giant like SW or a little Mom and Pop out there somewhere.

I've learned that an outlook of 'it's fine, though maybe not quite exactly what I thought, by a little' works best for me. Regardless of how or where I bought, I expect a little learning curve and tweaking.

 

[Dbassmon]

The title of the thread is "Sweetwater Scam"

I think we all agree those are very loaded and charged allegations.

Sweetwater is one of the most respected and largest on-line retailers in the USA. They are not the least expensive, but they provide value in many ways that other retailers do not. ie. posting pictures and weight of every instrument they sell and setting up and inspecting every instrument. I can't count the number of digs posted about badly set up instruments in the showroom of GC. They are heavily involved with pro musicians and their reputation is solid throughout the industry, not only with manufacturers, but players. My personal experience has been excellent, over many years.

So the premise of the return was stripped bridge screws.
This is German-made Sadowsky. Regardless of Sweetwater's inspection, that bass did not leave a German factory with stripped anything. Apparently, they became unstripped, because they could not find them on the return inspection.

The nature of the damage
I own a Sadowsky, and the Metro case is extremely rigid with thick foam padding, providing a very protected inner compartment. The double boxing that Sweetwater uses, provides two heavy gauge corrugated boxes with packing foam in between.
In order for that blunt force narrow gouge to happen in transport, not only would the boxes be punctured, but the case itself would have had to have been punctured. Otherwise, the case would absorb the energy of the blow. The body of that bass took a direct hit from the corner of something hard. This did not happen in transport.

Nobody in TB-land knows exactly what happened here but there is a fair amount of BS in the OP's story.

The thread might be better titled; I dropped my new bass and tried tried to return it, hoping Sweetwater would eat it? AKA; The Sweetwater Scam.

 

[ericplaysbass]

Please pay more close attention @Dbassmon . We're currently discussing how the same mark of damage is appearing on two separate basses offered by Sweetwater. OP didn't own both, so they couldn't have done both. The damage is the sticking point.

Furthermore, anything can leave any factory with defects. I had a friend get a defective pickup in his Fodera build that cost quadruple what this Sadowsky did. We're humans making human things. You shouldn't blindly stick up for Sadowsky or Sweetwater on principle rather than reality.

 

[Dynacord]

This is very interesting. I too thought both pics were of the same bass, but clearly they are not. So, identical damage inflicted on identical basses, at the same location on both bass bodies? You know where this is going, right? Someone, somewhere in the chain of possession has mishandled both these basses, either accidentally or deliberately.

Next question. Who would have the opporunity to have been in possession of both basses at any given point in time? The OP of this thread? The same shipping carrier employee working at the same location, who just coincidentally happened to mishandle both basses?

Think about it, there's only one "place of opportunity", and that appears to be somewhere within Sweetwater. They ship items out, and handle returns. Just sayin'....

Also not impossible that it could have been at the manufacturer before either bass got to SW. Not necessarily likely but another "place of opportunity".

 

[lug]

I predict that in the future, the Sweetwater basses with the special divot "mojo" enhancement will be collector's items due to their rarity, worth far more than the typical model.

 

[Dbassmon]

Please pay more close attention @Dbassmon OP didn't own both, so they couldn't have done both. The damage is the sticking point.

Furthermore, anything can leave any factory with defects. I had a friend get a defective pickup in his Fodera build that cost quadruple what this Sadowsky did. We're humans making human things. You shouldn't blindly stick up for Sadowsky or Sweetwater on principle rather than reality.

Thank you Eric for your insights. If you go back to the OP's post you will be able to catch up what my comments address. It seems as if you think this thread is about you. Carry on!

 

[bootstrap]

Nobody in TB-land knows exactly what happened here

Except for you, apparently!

 

[Dbassmon]

Except for you, apparently!

Well that is not accurate, Bootsy. Sweetwater figured this out pretty quickly. Carry on!

 

[Bonafide]

@Dbassmon - forest for the trees. This thread, as many do, has developed further than the initial OP post or conjecture as more information has been presented. Your reply is certainly valid, though, it had relevance 165 replies ago.

 

[gln1955]

The marks are NOT in the same place. On the same side of the bass, but that's about it. Conspiracy theories are fun though.

 

[bigdaddybass12]

If it was a vintage reissue, that's how they were originally (decal over the finish).

Cool. I didn’t know that.

 

[2F/2F]

Sweetwater is not what it used to be. That's the fat and skinny of it, which my own experience has borne out, completely independently of anything I've read about them online.

Based on my experience with them, their 55 point inspection cards are just plain lies. They probably scan their instruments better than most when they arrive from the manufacturer, just to make sure they themselves are not getting screwed. But due to the unforgivable crap Q.C. I've received from them in recent years, it's plain as day that their inspectors aren't looking at these things in extreme detail before sending them. I wouldn't be surprised if each instrument is getting a sub-60-second look over, or even if people are just filling out the inspection checklists without even looking at the instruments.

Whether the OP dinged the bass or not, Sweetwater has no way of truly proving it, thus they're on more than shaky legal ground taking someone's money for what happened. It could have happened any time after the suite of professional photos was taken, including when they unpacked it upon receiving it back. Did they take a brand new suite of photos immediately before shipping? No; they didn't. These things happen in high volume retail. You don't blame your customers without hard proof, you invest in insurance, and you eat losses – often. Even if the OP did ding the thing without realizing it, they shouldn't be charged $600 for it. That's a huge amount of money.

Always do a cursory suite of photos before returning something. Include the details of your packing job.

Another thing: I can all but guarantee you that they would not take $600 off if they sold it as B stock. I've only seen them take 5–10 percent off for B stock items (which results in a higher price than the 15 percent you used to be able to get on most A stock items, if you were a good regular customer).

Raise hell. File disputes with the bank behind your payment method. Payment disputes cost retailers money, which is the only thing private equity firms understand. Failing all that, go to Indiana and take them to small claims. They'll settle, or they'll lose, plus your legal fees. For $600, I would make the trip.

Sweetwater used to be the best of the large retailers, hands down. But we absolutely knew they would go this way when they were recently purchased by a private equity firm – just as we knew the formerly excellent Reverb.com would start to blow once Etsy bought them. These companies don't even try to hide it by slowly descending in quality after taking over; they just shamelessly plummet immediately.

The response from the Sweetwater guy doesn't change any of this. I hated that response. It just makes it worse, IMO. He's just doing his job to some degree, but it shows us things about how the company is run these days. Even if the OP made a mistake about the screws, Sweetwater should eat that as a customer relations cost. That's just how it goes in retail. Assigning blame for every little thing is counterproductive. You eat it, and move on. They have no legitimate grounds to charge the OP for that ding, as their evidence is not conclusive. It's just he said, she said, and nobody can prove when the ding happened, so you give the customer the benefit of the doubt, period. His response is indicative of the policies and approaches Sweetwater uses now in dealing with customers. I never ran into those sorts of problems in the old days with them, but I have in the past several years. I had already severely limited my business with them due to the sub-standard service and job performance I've experienced from their people recently. This post wasn't needed to get me there. But my experience certainly makes the OP and follow up seem more than believable.

 

[Dbassmon]

@Dbassmon - forest for the trees. This thread, as many do, has developed further than the initial OP post or conjecture as more information has been presented. Your reply is certainly valid, though, it had relevance 165 replies ago.

This forum thing, not sure you need to follow people when go down the conspiracy rabbit hole. I felt I wanted to address the OP's story which are what my input is about. Is that relevant to you? No? Carry on!

 

[ericplaysbass]

Thank you Eric for your insights. If you go back to the OP's post you will be able to catch up what my comments address. It seems as if you think this thread is about you. Carry on!

Sorry, I didn't think my comment was offensive to you. Not sure why you are so upset now at me and others here, but I apologize.
I think this thread has developed a lot more than what your comment really applies to, and now your further responses are not helping improve this discussion.

 

[Bonafide]

This forum thing, not sure you need to follow people when go down the conspiracy rabbit hole. I felt I wanted to address the OP's story which are what my input is about. Is that relevant to you? No? Carry on!

The OPs 'story' is not an isolated one. And while the introduction of 'conspiracy' to deflect or diminish others' real-life experiences is certainly one approach, an intelligent conversation, keeping an open mind with all information available, is a better one. Nothing wrong or odd with the OP being innocent here, or he could be wrong. SW is certainly not without flaws and many here have experienced them. Particularly of late.

The fact is, I don't know what the truth is. OPs post is not well written and was written under discomfort. So that is my only 'relevance'. You seem to be certain of the truth, more certain than me.

 

[Bass Viking]

Another thing: I can all but guarantee you that they would not take $600 off if they sold it as B stock. I've only even seen them take 5–10 percent off for B stock items.

I'm looking at this Warwick Thumb priced at $3591 as a demo due to There is a large finish irregularity along the back edge of the lower treble side bout. There are also fine scratches on various parts of the guitar that are not photographed. They only took off $189 which is 5% of the normal $3780 price.

Warwick Pro Series Thumb BO 5-string Bass - Natural Satin

 

[Iridescentone]

Also not impossible that it could have been at the manufacturer before either bass got to SW. Not necessarily likely but another "place of opportunity".

Fair point and true. But wouldn't that introduce yet another layer of failed QC inspection, from the source least likely to overlook damage? I don't think it's fair to expect a busy operation like Sweetwater to be perfect 100% of the time. But I would expect a much higher level of QC from a manufacturer. We know there are "factory 2nds, blems, over runs", etc., from various makers, that are marked as such.