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Sweetwater Scam
- Thread starter corradoc
- Start date
A lot of things about SW are annoying, you could say very old fashioned, salesey...except the fact that my SE gives me about 15% off every time, and I can see bass weights and wood patterns, and easily return stuff. The rest I DGAF about.
Corrado,
I’m really saddened that this has come to this point without you responding to my attempts to reach back out to you. I am the Sales Engineer of record on this transaction and Corrado’s Sales Engineer, and I feel obligated to correct some of the information presented in this thread. The bass was sent to the customer following our inspection and the photos of the bass were included in the emailed invoice for it. There were no defects in the body at that time. The customer called to setup the return stating that the bridge saddle screws were stripped so the return was setup for a full refund, including our covering return shipping. Given that this is a bass on the more expensive side of our catalog. I asked the returns inspection team to double check the screws and ensure they were working and not stripped, as that is something that will need to be fixed should we sell this instrument again in the future.
My team did the reinspection and found that the bridge was fully functional and the screw heads were not stripped, nor were the threads. The saddles were fully adjustable and functional. As such, per our return policy on voluntary “buyer’s regret” returns without defect - Returns & Exchanges | Help Center | Sweetwater - I deducted both outbound shipping and return shipping from the refund – Totaling $141.50. The returns inspection team also informed me they were listing the bass for sale as a Demo due to body damage. The bass can be viewed here - Sadowsky MetroLine 24-fret Modern Bass, Swamp Ash Body, 5-string - Ocean Blue Transparent Satin and includes a closeup photo of the damage in photo number 6. As such, and per our return policy, the price difference between a new bass and a Demo priced bass was deducted from the return - $581. This damage was not present when it was originally shipped, nor was it mentioned by the customer as a reason for return. The shipping box had no noticeable damage to it upon return, so we can only assume the customer caused the damage in the short time he possessed the instrument. I emailed the customer the detailed response to which he replied after hours on Friday. I was out of the office all weekend and then had to handle a family illness matter Monday. I reached out to the customer immediately upon returning to work this morning.
I have built up an outstanding reputation on this forum as well as with my Sweetwater customers. I strive for integrity in my work and personal life as many of the members of this forum can attest, and had hoped this could be resolved directly with the customer, but as he has chosen to take to a public forum to slander me (indirectly) and the terrific company I work for, I had no recourse aside from responding to this thread. I am still more than willing to discuss this personally over the phone, but if you remain unwilling to respond to my emails, phone calls or texts, I will consider this matter closed and will work to find you a new sales engineer who can better help you in the future. I will be out of the office tomorrow, but will be in Thursday, Friday and Saturday this week.
Brad Jones
I’m really saddened that this has come to this point without you responding to my attempts to reach back out to you. I am the Sales Engineer of record on this transaction and Corrado’s Sales Engineer, and I feel obligated to correct some of the information presented in this thread. The bass was sent to the customer following our inspection and the photos of the bass were included in the emailed invoice for it. There were no defects in the body at that time. The customer called to setup the return stating that the bridge saddle screws were stripped so the return was setup for a full refund, including our covering return shipping. Given that this is a bass on the more expensive side of our catalog. I asked the returns inspection team to double check the screws and ensure they were working and not stripped, as that is something that will need to be fixed should we sell this instrument again in the future.
My team did the reinspection and found that the bridge was fully functional and the screw heads were not stripped, nor were the threads. The saddles were fully adjustable and functional. As such, per our return policy on voluntary “buyer’s regret” returns without defect - Returns & Exchanges | Help Center | Sweetwater - I deducted both outbound shipping and return shipping from the refund – Totaling $141.50. The returns inspection team also informed me they were listing the bass for sale as a Demo due to body damage. The bass can be viewed here - Sadowsky MetroLine 24-fret Modern Bass, Swamp Ash Body, 5-string - Ocean Blue Transparent Satin and includes a closeup photo of the damage in photo number 6. As such, and per our return policy, the price difference between a new bass and a Demo priced bass was deducted from the return - $581. This damage was not present when it was originally shipped, nor was it mentioned by the customer as a reason for return. The shipping box had no noticeable damage to it upon return, so we can only assume the customer caused the damage in the short time he possessed the instrument. I emailed the customer the detailed response to which he replied after hours on Friday. I was out of the office all weekend and then had to handle a family illness matter Monday. I reached out to the customer immediately upon returning to work this morning.
I have built up an outstanding reputation on this forum as well as with my Sweetwater customers. I strive for integrity in my work and personal life as many of the members of this forum can attest, and had hoped this could be resolved directly with the customer, but as he has chosen to take to a public forum to slander me (indirectly) and the terrific company I work for, I had no recourse aside from responding to this thread. I am still more than willing to discuss this personally over the phone, but if you remain unwilling to respond to my emails, phone calls or texts, I will consider this matter closed and will work to find you a new sales engineer who can better help you in the future. I will be out of the office tomorrow, but will be in Thursday, Friday and Saturday this week.
Brad Jones
I’m just lucky I now have all the instruments I need & had great results on instruments I’ve bought sight unseen/unplayed.
The last few I’ve added were in person transactions & should I add anything else to the stable it will be in that manner.
Good luck one & all.
The last few I’ve added were in person transactions & should I add anything else to the stable it will be in that manner.
Good luck one & all.
songwriter21
I have an obsession for wood. The musical kind.
You shelled out money for the return that they already paid for? When I return, I pack it up the way it came, regardless, because it's on them. They paid for shipping...why'd you add to it?
could have absolutely nothing to do with factory QC, just some idiot that bought and ruined it, then returned it
yea this part was unbelievable to me lol - why would anyone ever do that
Also, why return a bass for a minor issue like a couple of stripped out screws? Just ask for replacement screws (not pole pieces as the OP thinks they're called).
Wait till you hear about FCS
@corradoc
So , my recommendation is to purchase the bass ASAP (since there’s nothing functionally wrong with it ) , plus you’ve already paid 600 bucks worth of the bass.
Now , about the use of the word “scam “:
I read through the whole thread, wondering why anyone would pay extra to have the bass packed, and why the emphasis on saying that everything was packed according to spec. I was also looking for you to post the pictures of the “before “ (no damage? ) and after (damage), and the stripped poles, which is what people usually post in these kind of threads. Pics aren’t there !
What ended up happening , is that the sales engineer posts this wonderful reply where everything is explained (including pictures!). Fantastic job @bradjonesbass
So yes , I get the scam vibes, except not from sweetwater.
I'm not into Sweetwater and the hole "my" sales engineer thing. Couldn't care less about the 55 point inspection. But damn @bradjonesbass, that was an excellent and professional response. If I ever need a sales engineer I will ask for you.
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Taking pics and videos of such a high value item should be a no brainer when you're returning something due to a problem and want to protect yourself. It's not like it's a great inconvenience nowadays when nearly everyone has a camera and video recorder near them all the time. IF the OP has / had them then it would be a good time to post them. If he doesn't, well...
I LOVE this response. NOTHING (to me) is more cringeworthy than when I read threads about "Players" ordering instruments from companies with easy return options, just so that they can "TRY" something that their local shop doesn't STOCK. WELL... maybe the Vultures who wait around for something like this to happen smile. Then... they get an AMAZING deal, because said buyer didn't LOVE his instrument, as if it were hand made for them, and delivered with kid gloves, DIRECTLY TO Him/Her. The ONLY "problem" that I have EVER had with SWEETWATER, is... responding to... "how did you like your order?" "Just making sure that everything was to your satisfaction." How can we help improve your experience in the future." I mean... COME ON!!! It was just a set of strings that I've purchased 10 times in the past. I'm being facetious at the moment. But yeah... this company really does CARE.
I guess I'm siding on your part. [edit] It's about time that this "practice" got "called out."
Enjoy your day off.
Peace,
Marc D'Larosa
P.S.
Tell Joe Perrone (my Rep) that I say "HI", and "Thank You."
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Well, two sides of the story, anyway. Brad Jones' post is convincing but there's a time gap unaccounted for. It's the point from which the Sweetwater team physically recieved the return, and the point at which the ding is discovered and reported. It's not impossible that a Sweetwater team member caused the ding while handling the returned item, but decides it's best to not accept responsibility for it, then blames the customer.
Brad admits the possibility, if only by inference....."The shipping box had no noticeable damage to it upon return, so we can only assume the customer caused the damage in the short time he possessed the instrument."
Not taking sides nor casting asperions at Brad Jones, he comes across as pretty straightforward. If this type issue occurred in a bank or a casino (and for a whole lot less than $600), it would be resolved in minutes by reviewing the entire episode, recorded on security cameras. Apart from that happening, "assumptions" are all there are.
Anyone recall where this cynical quote came from?
"Assumption is the mother of all f*****s."
Gonna play a little bit of devil's advocate out of curiosity, because I still feel like the full picture is missing.
And also because this:
Does not equal $600 to me... a demo discount of 10% maybe, but 10% of $3580 is $358, and this is the first I've heard of a customer paying the cost for damage upon return. Doesn't mean it hasn't always been a thing - just first I've heard about it as a long-time customer/forum lurker.
Would this small of a blemish really be caught by the Guitar Gallery team and/or the customer? It looks to almost blend in with the finish and would only catch in the right light, being a slight indent on an open pore finish with lots of grain.
Good on you for doing this. Definitely want to make sure it's properly and carefully inspected, but now I have to wonder: Did this careful of a re-inspection happen the first time it was sold?
At this point, I would have contacted the customer to see if they still wanted it, because if the only reason for the return in the first place was the defect, maybe they'd want to keep it then after all after confirming it's not defective. Maybe they used the wrong size wrench and got dramatical about it. Should they have if that's the case? No, of course not, and this all obviously depends on the customer's intent throughout the entire ordeal, which can change at the drop of a hat. If it was dubious to start with, that's a whole different thing.
And anyone wondering, "Why would they return it if that's all it was?" how would you feel if you spent over three grand and got less than perfect? I wouldn't have that. But, if it were my mistake and the product wasn't defective after all, I'd probably want it back.
I just... it seems too small to warrant this level of response honestly. Yes it is a professional, high-end instrument that should be flawless. But this small of a flaw... how can you be absolutely sure the customer did it? How can you be sure the customer even noticed it upon receipt? I would not have noticed that unless I was looking for it, which sure, you could argue you should be for this level of instrument. However, I have seen behind the scenes what goes on at Sweetwater through vlogs... I could easily see this happening during handling at any point of this exchange because it is so minor.
As such, even if the customer did in fact do it (why would they do it, anyway?) I can't see penalizing them for this. That just seems... off-brand, uncharacteristic of "the Sweetwater difference".
I understand why you can't just share the reply, but I'd be very curious what they said. Unfortunate timing for you though.
Which brings me to this. You did have recourse: Ignore this post. You were tagged, but not by the OP. You should have remained anonymous. I understand the desire to retain your integrity, but the better option would have been to stay away from it here and let this person vent, especially if they are being dubious. After all the responses here asking for more info before your post, if they never post again, I'd find that as an admission of guilt.
In summary, I find this "damage" to be too insignificant to warrant such a large penalty, at least disconnected from the situation. Lord knows I've sold to hundreds of bad actors, drama queens, and all sorts of ornery folks who have been dubious in their complaints, but I really don't see how it was the right move to invest in this quagmire over an imprint smaller than a slivered almond.
And also because this:
Does not equal $600 to me... a demo discount of 10% maybe, but 10% of $3580 is $358, and this is the first I've heard of a customer paying the cost for damage upon return. Doesn't mean it hasn't always been a thing - just first I've heard about it as a long-time customer/forum lurker.
Would this small of a blemish really be caught by the Guitar Gallery team and/or the customer? It looks to almost blend in with the finish and would only catch in the right light, being a slight indent on an open pore finish with lots of grain.
Good on you for doing this. Definitely want to make sure it's properly and carefully inspected, but now I have to wonder: Did this careful of a re-inspection happen the first time it was sold?
At this point, I would have contacted the customer to see if they still wanted it, because if the only reason for the return in the first place was the defect, maybe they'd want to keep it then after all after confirming it's not defective. Maybe they used the wrong size wrench and got dramatical about it. Should they have if that's the case? No, of course not, and this all obviously depends on the customer's intent throughout the entire ordeal, which can change at the drop of a hat. If it was dubious to start with, that's a whole different thing.
And anyone wondering, "Why would they return it if that's all it was?" how would you feel if you spent over three grand and got less than perfect? I wouldn't have that. But, if it were my mistake and the product wasn't defective after all, I'd probably want it back.
I just... it seems too small to warrant this level of response honestly. Yes it is a professional, high-end instrument that should be flawless. But this small of a flaw... how can you be absolutely sure the customer did it? How can you be sure the customer even noticed it upon receipt? I would not have noticed that unless I was looking for it, which sure, you could argue you should be for this level of instrument. However, I have seen behind the scenes what goes on at Sweetwater through vlogs... I could easily see this happening during handling at any point of this exchange because it is so minor.
As such, even if the customer did in fact do it (why would they do it, anyway?) I can't see penalizing them for this. That just seems... off-brand, uncharacteristic of "the Sweetwater difference".
I understand why you can't just share the reply, but I'd be very curious what they said. Unfortunate timing for you though.
Which brings me to this. You did have recourse: Ignore this post. You were tagged, but not by the OP. You should have remained anonymous. I understand the desire to retain your integrity, but the better option would have been to stay away from it here and let this person vent, especially if they are being dubious. After all the responses here asking for more info before your post, if they never post again, I'd find that as an admission of guilt.
In summary, I find this "damage" to be too insignificant to warrant such a large penalty, at least disconnected from the situation. Lord knows I've sold to hundreds of bad actors, drama queens, and all sorts of ornery folks who have been dubious in their complaints, but I really don't see how it was the right move to invest in this quagmire over an imprint smaller than a slivered almond.
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