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Switching to Class D. Is 500w enough?

#21
500 watts should be good. . . if you have the right cabs. A good 410 or 212 or 215 will make the most of those watts.

My goto amp for loud bands is 700 watts into 2 Barefaced 112 cabs. Blows your budget a little but I don't like running any gear flat out so headroom is important, and these cabs never break a sweat.
 
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#22
lilcoffeebeen said:
Ok I’m buying a modern class D rig. I’m actually considering buying an 800w (Genzler 800) but the one I am probably buying is a 500w (pf500). Even if I go with the 800, with a single cab it’s rated for 400w & im looking at a single 210 cabinet for that. So even w the genzler I’d be running just 400w. I have scraped YouTube but ultimately I just need to know… is 400-500w enough to cut through a heavy hitting band on stage in a live mix without using DI?
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For 5 years, I used a Fender Rumble 200 as my only amp, and played everything from jazz groups to metal. Without an extension cabinet, that amp is 140W Class D through a single 15" speaker. It was always loud enough, and I never used an ext cab.
 
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#23
Mesa walkabout head into 2 swr 4x10's pretty much, GK fusion 500 into ampeg 6x10 yes, mesa d800+ into bergantino 4x10 most definitely. These are rigs I owned when I played in loud bands. The mesa d800+/bergantino was light and easy to move. That rig scared my loud guitarist. Look on his face was priceless.
 
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#24
When I was running my Terrorbass 1000, it was Waaaay more than I ever needed in a loud band - rarely got above 3 (8-9 o'clock). The TB500 I'd float around 4-6 (noonish). both heads have gone through: Ampeg 610 & 810s (pretty consistent levels) my neo 412, a handful of 410s. Through the bigger boxes, levels were pretty consistent. On a variety of 410s, I'd need to bring it up a little to fall in the mix with drums/bass.

You should be good to go with 500 watts and a solid cab.
 
#25
lilcoffeebeen said:
Ok I’m buying a modern class D rig. I’m actually considering buying an 800w (Genzler 800) but the one I am probably buying is a 500w (pf500). Even if I go with the 800, with a single cab it’s rated for 400w & im looking at a single 210 cabinet for that. So even w the genzler I’d be running just 400w. I have scraped YouTube but ultimately I just need to know… is 400-500w enough to cut through a heavy hitting band on stage in a live mix without using DI?
Click to expand...

I have a GK MB500 that I use with a VERY efficient Schroeder 1515L and it's got plenty of juice for anything I do.
 
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#26
I have the PF500 and both 210 and 410 cabinets and can confirm everything that has been said re: being more than enough wattage to be heard with the band. You can't go wrong with that set up.

I will say, when I was playing out I rarely used the 410 at gigs (most venues had full PA support) and the 210 was more than enough for me to hear my bass on stage, YMMV.

[And a big plus one on the hearing protection. I wish I hadn't been so careless when I was younger]
 
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#27
RustfeatherBass said:
I may be in the minority, but I say get the 800 watts so you never have to worry about not having enough. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it, as the saying goes.

And as others have said, if you're playing in a loud, hard-hitting band, adding another cab will generally do more for you than adding more watts. But as someone who has played in some stupid loud bands and not been loud enough, I'd go for 800 watts AND another cab. Then you'll never have to worry. And you can always take half the rig when/if appropriate.
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I agree with this approach 100%
 
#30
RustfeatherBass said:
I may be in the minority, but I say get the 800 watts so you never have to worry about not having enough. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it, as the saying goes.
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I agree, but I'm baffled by the legions of TB members who go mental when someone suggests having more amp watts than the cab is rated for.

"You'll blow your cab up!"

Really?
 
#33
MultiScaleMale said:
Adding watts will not make you loud enough. Adding cabs will. (Assuming you're not starting with something anemic)
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I agree 100%
Regarding "anemic" cabs. . . even a small or under-powered cab can be optimised/improved by getting the thing OFF THE GROUND!!! As an experiment this year, I substituted my Quilter BB802 for a BAM200, and changed the 410 + 115 for 2x BC208 cabs. BC208's are 2x 8" speakers. BUT, I stacked them vertically and mounted them on a 2ft wooden stand. I only had to run the little BAM200 half-way to do the job. Plenty loud.
You're right. Adding watts alone will not make you louder.
 
#34
if volume is your primary concern, you'll want to know the sensitivity rating of your cab(s). if it's in the low 90s, more watts will help. if it's in the high 90s, you probably won't need 'em. I use an 800W class D amp because my cabs have a relatively low sensitivity rating (fEarful 12/6s). I had to push my 500W heads a little harder than I like to get them up to the right volume.
 
#35
lilcoffeebeen said:
Ok I’m buying a modern class D rig. I’m actually considering buying an 800w (Genzler 800) but the one I am probably buying is a 500w (pf500). Even if I go with the 800, with a single cab it’s rated for 400w & im looking at a single 210 cabinet for that. So even w the genzler I’d be running just 400w. I have scraped YouTube but ultimately I just need to know… is 400-500w enough to cut through a heavy hitting band on stage in a live mix without using DI?
Click to expand...

I have been playing for 50 years and the most watts in a bass amp ever for me was 350.
 
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#36
Going to jump on the "Two 2x10 cabs stacked vertically" bandwagon.

You'll have plenty of volume, and can hear yourself easier with speakers closer to your ears...which I'll assume you need for this insanely loud band. Smaller gig or less room to transport? Just bring one cab. Get a solid identical pair though, mixed cabs could work, but it's a real crapshoot.


Also, don't forget the earplugs! :thumbsup:
 
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#38
lilcoffeebeen said:
Thanks yeah I was really wanting a modern cabinet with low profile design but I am definitely considering grabbing a 410HLF just to feel safe. By hard hitting I mean deafening noise rock band. I just play so much at home I wanted a pretty little cabinet that could get away with doing both. I’ll get a larger cab.
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Why not another 2x10? I use 2-2x10" SWR Goliath Jr powered by my SWR sm 400 and it handles anything I throw at it.
 
#39
ctmullins said:
I agree, but I'm baffled by the legions of TB members who go mental when someone suggests having more amp watts than the cab is rated for.

"You'll blow your cab up!"

Really?
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You are baffled because you don’t have the experience of how the average player thinks, and their unrealistic expectations on what many speakers can provide (SPL and LF extension).

Then there are the accidents like a cable becoming unplugged, sending very loud noises through the speakers.

This results in a number of cabinets getting damaged from overpowering. The greater the ratio of over powering, the faster the damage occurs. If this wasn’t true, there wouldn’t be much of a recone are replacement driver market.
 
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#40
Without knowing what music you play and what volume they play at can tell what you need. ... My Aguilar TH350 is plenty I don't need the 500. ... Pay for a good quality amp and speakers and 500 watts, I think, should be plenty.
 
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