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SWR's declining popularity

#21
Most of the bass playing world is still unaware of boutique gear. Sure, when I go to TalkBass get-togethers, everyone knows about Epifani, Aguilar, Kern, Bergantino. Aside from that group, the bassists I know and meet who check my gear say "Bergantino? Interesting, I've never heard of that brand". Many times I've had to explain "yeah, heard about 'em on the internet, tried 'em for myself on a vacation to NYC".

Most people looking for gear are going to research what's locally available. Ok, they see interesting ads and reviews in Bass Player for EA or Accugroove, but their local stores don't carry that stuff. Why take a chance on expensive gear that they can't try ahead of time? Might as well stick with the tried-and-true brands: Ampeg, SWR, Eden, GK, etc.

As for low resale value: maybe lots of used SWR gear is currently available, maybe it's a market fluctuation, who knows. But IMO, the fact that SWR is still carried by the mega-stores is proof enough of their popularity.
 
#22
I have an old baby blue 2x8 that I love dearly for double bass in small rooms.
I have a super redhead I used as my primary rig for years.
Then I bought a Thunderfunk and a Schroeder 1210.
Waaay better base sound, more eq options, and more responsive eq.
While many folks may still buy and use SWR (and bully for you if that's you), I've moved on to what are better options for me.
 
#23
vision said:
So why would you spend $1200 on the SWR when you could buy a Thunderfunk, an Eden WT550, a UK Ashdown, a high end pre/power setup, an EA, etc., with much more resale value. Or an even better question is - why spend $1200 on a new SM500 when you could find a used one in great condition for half the price?
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Not too get too far off topic - (well maybe a little)... but,

For some folks, resale value is not a concern because they don't constantly buy and sell gear. They are looking for "the one", and once they have it or at least think they do they stop looking. Looking for a lifelong wife instead of a date, as it were. Others are in the market 24/7 (a lot of TB'ers!) and thus resale becomes a huge concern.

As for the whys of new vs. used gear gear, simply because it's new.

When buying used, you don't know what the previous owner(s) did to it, how hard it's been used, how many times its been dropped or repaired or left out in the rain or had beer spilled in it or run with the wrong impedance, etc., etc.

With new gear you generally get some sort of warranty - sometimes a good one. You also get the peace of mind of knowing the gear is at the beginning of its product mortality curve. All gear dies sooner or later. With used gear, it is more likely to be sooner (not implying that that means soon...)

But the new vs. used argument holds true for most things other than bass gear as well (e.g. cars.) Probably like cars, your best bet value-wise is slightly used, like the gear some guy sells right after he bought it when he desperately needs cash.
 
#24
As an IOD owner, I'm slightly annoyed about the lack of attention to small stuff, especially in light of the innovative features in the same unit.

For example, the DI output is gutless at 0.7 volts maximum. This is much too low to drive balanced-out pro sound power amplifiers, and too hot for a MIC level input to a sound board.

Further, if the IOD output was indeed intended to be a MIC level DI, why did SWR leave it succeptible to damage from +48V phantom power? Many consoles, inclucing my SR24.4, have globally switched phantom power. All 24 on... all 24 off. Voltage blocking circuity for phantom power is common place, and has been for a long time. Why is it absent from the IOD?

I owned the Bass 750 head, and enjoyed everything except the lack of power. This is a problem with any head, and not a design fault. I learned early-on that I wanted preamp + power amp instead of a head.

As to their speakers, I've played a few in the local GC, and was not impressed. Bottomless, shrill... are the words that come to mind. Then again, I'm not thrilled by any of the big commercial cabs, and have not heard any of the boutiques.

Trend is another reason for SWR falling out of favor. Companies have to re-invent themselves (read: hype) or the fickle public loses interest. This reminds me of force-feeding hogs and chickens...
 
#25
Cristo said:
For some folks, resale value is not a concern because they don't constantly buy and sell gear. They are looking for "the one", and once they have it or at least think they do they stop looking. Looking for a lifelong wife instead of a date, as it were. Others are in the market 24/7 (a lot of TB'ers!) and thus resale becomes a huge concern.
Click to expand...

You definitely make a great point here...most of us TB'ers are constantly looking to upgrade, even when we are really happy with our current gear! I've definitely bought gear with the sole intention of trying it out for a bit and selling it, knowing I can at least make my initial cost back. So my views on new gear is probably off...
 
#26
Having spent a lot of hard earned money on many SWR products since the early 1990's I was sad when Steve left. Is anyone from the original design team left? I thought someone here mentioned them working on an all tube head?

It appears US Music Corps buy out of Eden has really helped that company, but they also kept the man with the vision. (David N.)

Is SWR still SWR with out their vision man Steve W. Rabe?
 
#27
Buzz said:
Is SWR still SWR with out their vision man Steve W. Rabe?
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Good question! I would love to see them come out with some new products...for example I think that a Goliath IV is way overdue...Its always been the industry standard 410, and each time they came out with a new version there was some kind of innovation putting it right back on top. Maybe a lightweight, neo version? Or maybe a new tweeter/crosover design that isn't at harsh?
 
#29
getz76 said:
I disagree.

SWR seems to be doing fine. Their gears flys out of mega-stores and mega-online-shops.

Your average forumite is not your average player.

Your average forumite is not playing a Fender. However, go see a local band, and 80% or more of the time you will see them holding some sort of Fender. More likely than not, they will also be playing through some non-boutique rig (Peavey, SWR, Eden, Hartke, etc.).

I still see more SWR Goliath cabinets than any other 4x10" cabinet, at least in my area.
Click to expand...

i absolutely agree. then again, your area is my area too!

I used to play at Ditto's (the black bear now) a lot. havnt been there in ages. The little 159 too. ahhh. good times.
 
#30
bgavin said:
For example, the DI output is gutless at 0.7 volts maximum. This is much too low to drive balanced-out pro sound power amplifiers, and too hot for a MIC level input to a sound board.

Further, if the IOD output was indeed intended to be a MIC level DI, why did SWR leave it succeptible to damage from +48V phantom power? Many consoles, inclucing my SR24.4, have globally switched phantom power. All 24 on... all 24 off. Voltage blocking circuity for phantom power is common place, and has been for a long time. Why is it absent from the IOD?
Click to expand...

i used to use an IOD for a while and liked it. The DI was never a problem for me running it into mixers, so i guess its more of a YMMV issue. Also I e-mailed swr/fender about the phantom power issue, and all IOD's manufactured after a certain date (i dont remember but i want to say aug 1998...sometime during the pre-fender black & chrome production) have phantom power protection.
 
#35
When you find what you need it doesn't matter if it's popular. I have hi end boutique gear and it actually can't do what my pro SWR gear can do. For medium gigs requireing extreme articulation it's perfect. I would have to at least double my boutique stuff to do the large and or outside gigs that two GIIIs and a Bass 750 can do. Plus I play different genres of music with different gear. My boutique gear can be heard on kevinburnes.com. Search for Melange. That's EA with a Roscoe 5 and a Guild Ashbory. And speaking of popular as someone mentioned few folks know of this boutique gear. You might have a Glockenklang do you care who cares? If I drive a Porsche (I don't) why do I care how many cars GM sold today, or if a certain minivan is popular?
 
#36
I like SWR amps. My SM-900 recently died and I was considering getting a "Talkbass cool factor amp" like the TF, but the fix was cheap so I am keeping it. I had an IOD with a QSC PLX 1602 for a while and it was also nice despite the output (which I fixed by using an active xover).

I dunno. I'm with chadds. You aren't your amp rig. I am a total gearhead and love all of the different options, but at the end of the day it's about the pocket and the notes. I don't care what I'm plugged into as long as it's not a pair of maracas.
 
#37
Munjibunga said:
Even though I am a Total Hyper Elite Member, I believe I can identify with the average forumite, and I have and play four Fender basses (one at a time).
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Indeed.

I think the ratio of Sadowsky + Lakland + Lulls to active forumites isn't quite representative of the population of bass players as a whole. ;)

I play a single Fender, though it is feeling neglected since the Lull showed up. I threw flats on it... that has helped it feel special lately.
 
#39
I don't give a crap what anyone says. I love my pre-Fender SM-500 and don't care whether it's hip or cool or state of the art or has great resale value or whatever. I couldn't give a crap about what the new-fangled trends in bass amps are...most of them sound too hi-fi. The SWR has the perfect balance of hi-fi and old school. I can get pretty much any sound I need out of it. That's all I care.
 
#40
I think they kind of shot themselves in the foot when they did too much of an entry line. The WM12 was a good combo that rivaled the GK microbass. It wasn't so much as cheap, but more utilitarian. With the 15 other items in the WM series, and then the LA series, I think they cheapened themselves. I think any company takes a risk when they release a budget line like that.

Would you still look as highly at the EA amps if they came out with a $250 combo that was built nothing like its big brothers?
 

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