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SWR's declining popularity

#41
Right on momo! I think that is a big factor, especially because some of the larger retailers have stopped carrying the higher line SWR stuff. Our local Guitar Centers has been blowing out the pro line SWR cabinets, brand new Goliath III $599/ Son Of Bertha $399. I couldn't pass them up at that price, but if you recently purchased one of those cabs at their normal retail prices, $799 and $599 respectively, than there goes your resale. By the way, I purchased the last two cabinets they had, and the salesman wouldn't come right out and say they wouldn't be caryying them anymore, but that's the impression that I got. Looking around, all I saw was Workingman's and LA series stuff. There was plenty of expensive Ampeg gear around though, which might make the point that the retailers feel like they don't have a market for the pro line SWR stuff.

I used an SWR Silverado 2x12 for 8 years, as my main bass rig, and loved every minute of it. I bought it new at Guitar Centers back in 96. That baby never let me down! Unfortunately, I can't say the same for the SM-500 I bought later when I upgraded the size of my rig. I loved the sound of the 500, I just couldn't keep it from shutting down, from time to time, when it got too hot. Some have had this problem, and some haven't, so maybe there is a bit of a QC problem there. My Silverado never shut down, and I ran that combo much harder.

Oh well, my 2 cents. ;)
 
#42
I know that none of this matters if you have an SWR amp and you are happy with it (remember I have 2 myself, and I am definitely happy with them!) but I think that for the long run, brand image is very important. I'm not talking about a players perspective here, but the company's perspective for the future. SWR has been out around 20 years...where will they be 20 years from now? If they don't come out with any new or updated products in their pro line, I think that the bass amp industry will pass them by. A company has to continue to innovate and constantly freshen up their products to have long term success. And for the last few years, SWR hasn't been doing that.

For example take some of the other big hitters in the bass amp market over the last 20 years...GK, Ampeg, and Eden. GK in the last couple years has come out with a neo speaker line, and they have come out with updated versions of their heads. Ampeg has come out with the Portabass series, and they have introduced new heads to the pro line. Eden is constantly updating their lineup (the WT550 replacing the WT400, the 405 replacing the 330, the new WT1250, etc.) Its because of this I believe those companies will remain strong for years to come. I can't say the same for SWR...they are only bringing out new products on the lower end, which are selling because of the name SWR. But it doesn't take too long for a name to be tarnished, just ask Tobias.
 
#43
Boondog Reisbol said:
Agreed, I'm also from Hoboken (11th & Garden) and the rehearsal studios we use are primarily Eden WT's and SWRs Goliaths in various combos. I see mostly Hartkes out gigging in NYC and Jersey Shore areas. I love my pre-Fender Super Redhead and find it very capable handling small-med sized rooms using my 4 strings but lately I've been favoring less sizzle & a more Ampegish sound.
Click to expand...
??? the studio on Front St. right in Red Bank uses an Ampeg 810 and a GK1001RB-II, which is the same set up I've used at a studio in Kenilworth. I'm seeing mostly Hartke and SWR Goliath III's on gigs, I've only ever seen on guy with Eden, and Im using Peavey and Avatar because I'm broke. Hartke is probably the most popular thing I've seen.
 
#45
I have the only SWR amp I ever wanted, a Baby Blue II. I never did care for the rest of the SWR line. It just never had the sound I heard in my head. I always thought for advertising tubes it was not nearly as warm as it should sound and the advertised wattage was over rated. I think "the sound" matters much more to us (bass players) than anyone else. We look for the sound we have in our head. The sad fact 99% of the people you are playing for don't give a crap about your rig as long as they can hear you. Face it, we spend waaaaaay to much for what we actually need to get the job done.

az
 
#46
I think it's a combination of a general shift in tonal preference from that 'hi-fi' sound to a fatter warmer one, a lack of innovation and focus on their high-end products, a sale to Fender which hasn't done great things for their credibility or customer support, and a line of budget amps which aren't really good enough.

Saying that, I bet they're making more money than ever.

And my SWR Grand Prix remains a fine preamp!

Alex
 
#47
DeadRBassistNJ said:
??? the studio on Front St. right in Red Bank uses an Ampeg 810 and a GK1001RB-II, which is the same set up I've used at a studio in Kenilworth. I'm seeing mostly Hartke and SWR Goliath III's on gigs, I've only ever seen on guy with Eden, and Im using Peavey and Avatar because I'm broke. Hartke is probably the most popular thing I've seen.
Click to expand...

yeah - a lot of Hartke stuff.
Since moving out of Hoboken,
we've been going to BackStage
in Paterson - it's all WT heads
with Goliaths and/or XLT's.

I really should convince my band
to rehearse in Red Bank - that
sounds like a nice set-up - and
5 minutes away :)
 
#49
Wow, the resale value really has gone down! I just checked ebay's completed auctions for the sm-400...three of them are listed as sold, for prices at $278, $300, and $316. one didn't sell twice, and its reserve was $395. It was just earlier this year that the sm-400 was regularly going in the mid $400's...
 
#50
It's a very bad time to be selling an SWR product.

I think in five years, SWR will be a bigger threat to Crate than Ampeg. BTW--Ampeg is, in industry terms, going nuts with innovative products. I don't care for the sound, but I have to complement them on having a living breathing presence among their customers.

You get the sense that Fender is making new SWR amps in some distant/faceless factory and throwing them out the second story window so that the ignorant masses can scrabble over them. There's no humanity in the brand. There's IS a fair bit of "we're Fender and we know better than you what you need" going on. It's odd, becuase I think Fender has done better with their own products than they have with SWR. I just don't think Fender has anyone on their management team able to speak to this customer base.

Case in point. The new Fender preamp.
 
#51
SWR pro level stuff is still as good as it was before and the sound is the same. The difference is more alternatives and as mentioned the people searching for a more vintage sound. I think it is a gear phase. At some point, the hi-fi clean sound will come back. The SWR came about as more virturoso players were in the making extending the limits of what we expected to hear from a bass. Now that we have gotten over that and we can do alot more on board (active preamps,better pickups), the desire for amps with "character" have become greater. I think if Fender doesn't mis-manage the brand it will be around. I think now and in the future it was just be another amp... not the boutique amp is was...
 
#53
Pickebass said:
SWR pro level stuff is still as good as it was before and the sound is the same. The difference is more alternatives and as mentioned the people searching for a more vintage sound. I think it is a gear phase. At some point, the hi-fi clean sound will come back. The SWR came about as more virturoso players were in the making extending the limits of what we expected to hear from a bass. Now that we have gotten over that and we can do alot more on board (active preamps,better pickups), the desire for amps with "character" have become greater. I think if Fender doesn't mis-manage the brand it will be around. I think now and in the future it was just be another amp... not the boutique amp is was...
Click to expand...

I agree that their pro level gear is the same quality as it was before. The problem is just that in the meantime other companies have surpassed them. Like someone said earlier, there are other companies doing SWR's trademark sound better than them now - with gear that is more versatile, in lighter, smaller, and more powerful packages.
 
#54
The Mock Turtle Regulator said:
at last night's Trace Elliot launch Doug Wimbish said "I ran from SWR when I heard Trace were back"- ouch....
Click to expand...

Insulting the gear he slapped his stamp of approval on for a few years....huh. He's basically saying that he played through what he believed to be sub-par gear for years.....I can only guess there was a financial reason behind this choice. Doesn't say much for his character, in my opinion.

Mike
 
#56
Eh...it doesn't make me think any less of Doug. He just allowed a personal opinion to slip out when he should just be spouting the party line. Endorsements by players of his stature are business pure and simple. Heck, look at Chuck Rainey. I think he's endorsed every brand of bass and amp in existence....usually all at the same time. I'd guess those endorsements are probably paying most of his bills.
 
#57
Doug said he was having gear practically thrown at him by every amp maker-
when I saw Living Colour in 2001 (at the Forum Kentish Town) he still had a Trace setup.

without support for that setup once Trace had gone under I can understand why he'd endorse SWR- wasn't Marcus Miller an SWR endorsee? (he's with EBS now, i think?)

maybe Doug encountered reliability problems with the SWR gear over the 3/4 or however many years he was with them.

Doug did openly slate Marshall bass amps though.....
 
#58
The Mock Turtle Regulator said:
Doug said he was having gear practically thrown at him by every amp maker....

...without support for that setup once Trace had gone under I can understand why he'd endorse SWR-
Click to expand...

If Doug was having gear thrown at him, why didn't he go with a brand he liked more? I can't comment on reliability for the guy, but I think this forum would generally consider SWR about as reliable as any other major manufacturer.

My point was that he could have easily expressed his excitement about Trace coming back without having to slam the company he was leaving. The fact that he did not do that is, in my opinion, showing a lack of class. That's all. He's a great player. He's allowed to do/say whatever he wants about whatever brand he wants....end of story.

Mike
 
#59
In an interview with Doug he was talking about how excited he was that he was with swr, he said he really wanted to work to make innnovative products with the company tht could really take his abuse....maybe they jsut didn't work together towards this goal. As it has been stated, swr aren't doing much in terms of innovtion nowadays.
My main rig for a good few years was an swr bass 750 and goliathIII, I've since moved on to an amp with more headroom, punch, and a more palpable tube pre section, and cabs with less harsh high end and better portability. Still, me and my swr rig had some great sounding shows together.
 
#60
vision said:
Wow, the resale value really has gone down! I just checked ebay's completed auctions for the sm-400...three of them are listed as sold, for prices at $278, $300, and $316. one didn't sell twice, and its reserve was $395. It was just earlier this year that the sm-400 was regularly going in the mid $400's...
Click to expand...
Ebay is a good place to check prices but it is Ebay not the real world. It is one marketplace. I've seen 1972 Marshall Superlead 100s sell for $1000. and then for $3500 in apparently similar condition. This just shows what someone is willing to pay. It also shows how many of us weren't willing to pay that. The SM-400 is one of the greatest amps of all time capable of so much and often very misunderstood by folks who even had the owners manual. If you need one pick it up at that great price. Too often unless you follow forums where people discuss their Ebay purchases you don't know what was the actual condition of said cheaply priced amp. Also since SWR made more then three 400s people are holding on to theirs. Remember there are Fender amps we revere and those from the CBS days on that we don't. It's ironic that we can use them as an example.
 

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