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SX Stingray

#161
tplyons said:
...
The oval pickguard and 3+1 headstock are synonymous with the Stingray bass. Ernie Ball has copyrighted the 3+1 headstock I believe, making this SX an even less legal copy.
...
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First off, let me say that I'm not particularly fond of people copying designs, legally or not. I'd rather they did something original!!

That being said, regarding legality, and the above quoted statement:

I've heard it said many times that EB owns the rights to the 3+1 headstock tuner placement.

I have searched patent records for claims to the invention of this. There is none owned or registered to Ernie Ball or Music Man.

I have also searched the copyright database for design claims by Ernie Ball or Music Man. Ernie Ball owns copyright registration #1,495,728. It is a design copyright. It pictures the headstock, with 3+1 tuners mounted.

Now, my question: can anyone state, with authority, that the actual rights bestowed and enforceable here, include the tuner placement? What I'm considering here is the possibility that, like the Fender copyrights, only the headstock shape may be covered.

(It is to be noted that the Fender design copyright shows only the outline, and further has text limiting the rights to the curved part of the design, excluding the straight line. But, this has been through a legal battle and re-definition, which is not AFAIK the case with the EB copyright.)
 
#162
dave120 said:
Ok, but assuming OLP pays EBMM the ~$100 price difference between it and the SX copy, why is the OLP probably of inferior quality (once again, assuming SX MM is along their usual quality)?
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I think that may be a bit of an assumption. I figured the licensing fee to be a lot less $$, though that's just my guess.

My guess is that OLP previously had little problems with sales, and therefore had more latitude with pricing, and that they may be forced to cut their margins if the SXs hurt their sales.
 
#163
IotaNet said:
You guys are debating as though you have a personal interest in this thing!

While this is wildly entertaining, the last time I looked, nobody in this thread (with the possible exception of Bovinehost) has any "dog in this fight" whatsoever!

Ya'll need to relax, relate, & release!
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That's whats up!
 
#165
Billy Low said:
... How many of the dissenters (who were old enough) refused to utilize or purchase Microsoft's Windows 95 because it was a knockoff of Macintosh’s OS that was created in 87? ...
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IotaNet said:
... which was actually a knockoff of the Xerox STAR that was created in 1981. ;)
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I am rather certain that Apple bought the intellectual property from Xerox PARC, and did not "knock it off." I'm also fairly certain that Apple sued Microsoft on UI infringement, and that these claims were dropped as a portion of a resolution many years later that also included licensing of QuickTime and possibly other technologies.
 
#167
cheezewiz said:
Not me brotha! I'm relaxed. I'm just finding this thread highly entertaining! I didn't realize POS Chinese basses that weigh 13 lbs and have sprouting frets engender such loyalty. In the end, if someone has an SX, and likes it, that is all that really matters.
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yeah, i really don't care as the SX SR copy isn't a 6 string bass, and EB doesn't make a non-baritone 6 string bass, so i am just adding fuel to the fire :)
 
#168
cheezewiz said:
Not me brotha! I'm relaxed. I'm just finding this thread highly entertaining! I didn't realize POS Chinese basses that weigh 13 lbs and have sprouting frets engender such loyalty. In the end, if someone has an SX, and likes it, that is all that really matters.
Click to expand...

I've never played an SX, nor have I had much of a desire to buy one (maybe a guitar just to fool around on one), and like you, I find this thread mostly entertaining. But the way you and others pay so much attention to this so called "POS" without having played one, it makes me think there really is a genuine concern that people might actually like it.

If the worst you can say about it is that it's Chinese, weighs alot, and has sprouting frets (so do EBMMs in the right climate), maybe they are doing something right.
 
#170
pilotjones said:
I have also searched the copyright database for design claims by Ernie Ball or Music Man. Ernie Ball owns copyright registration #1,495,728. It is a design copyright. It pictures the headstock, with 3+1 tuners mounted.
Click to expand...

this from the musicman history page Link Removed -

The StingRay was the first production bass to feature active electronics and the trademarked 3+1 tuning key headstock configuration.
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so having the headstock with the tuning keys on it as a copyright must mean the 3+1 is copyrighted as well.
 
#171
i don't know if this helps, but i also got this in the hishtory page

"These products are Ernie Ball trademarks registered in the USA and many foreign countries:
ERNIE BALL® CUSTOM GAUGE® SLINKY® EARTHWOOD® MUSICMAN®
STINGRAY® SILHOUETTE® AXIS® STERLING® 4+2®
3+1®Trademark ownership is indicated by the symbol ®"

so i don't know if that helps either side, but i looks like the 3+1 tuning peg configuration is a registered trademark of EB/MM
 
#172
toad said:
I've never played an SX, nor have I had much of a desire to buy one (maybe a guitar just to fool around on one), and like you, I find this thread mostly entertaining. But the way you and others pay so much attention to this so called "POS" without having played one, it makes me think there really is a genuine concern that people might actually like it.

If the worst you can say about it is that it's Chinese, weighs alot, and has sprouting frets (so do EBMMs in the right climate), maybe they are doing something right.
Click to expand...

Actually, I've played several SX basses. They are what they are. They are worth about what they cost in my book.
 
#173
... what the heck, I'll throw some $h!t into the game. :cool:

I imagine that most people will upgrade their SX MM lookalikes with new electronics. I know that Seymour Duncan used to sell something called the "Basslines MusicMan System" (http://namm.harmony-central.com/SNAMM03/Content/Seymour_Duncan/PR/New-MM-PUs.html) that consisted of a new pickup and preamp for about $250.

I don't know if it's still available but here is what someone did with that system and a Jay Turser Bass:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

YMMV.
 
#175
pilotjones said:
I am rather certain that Apple bought the intellectual property from Xerox PARC, and did not "knock it off." I'm also fairly certain that Apple sued Microsoft on UI infringement, and that these claims were dropped as a portion of a resolution many years later that also included licensing of QuickTime and possibly other technologies.
Click to expand...

That's not my arguement. I'm not for nor against either side of the coin. Play what makes you happy. I'm just laughing at those who are being hypocritical. Those who argue that it's wrong and then commit the same offense in another arena! You know, the old Rush Limbaugh line of thinking "Crack smokers should be in jail but those who are addicted perscription drugs and take them without doctors consent need counseling!" and the classic "All illegal immigrants need to be deported, except for the housekeeper that was getting me the perscription drugs I was taking illegally!" and better yet the "Everyone that hires illegals should face prosecution, except for the wife of the Govenor of Florida!"

I could give less than a damn about either company's practices at this point, but I really think these hardliners need to chillax! Is their world going to collapse because little Jimmy Noplay is buying a clone of their wet dream...I think not!;)

I can see the headlines now...

THE DOW DROPS 1000 POINTS BECAUSE OF THE SX MM CLONE!
 
#177
Billy Low said:
That's not my arguement. I'm not for nor against either side of the coin. Play what makes you happy. I'm just laughing at those who are being hypocritical. Those who argue that it's wrong and then commit the same offense in another arena! You know, the old Rush Limbaugh line of thinking "Crack smokers should be in jail but those who are addicted perscription drugs and take them without doctors consent need counseling!" and the classic "All illegal immigrants need to be deported, except for the housekeeper that was getting me the perscription drugs I was taking illegally!" and better yet the "Everyone that hires illegals should face prosecution, except for the wife of the Govenor of Florida!"

I could give less than a damn about either company's practices at this point, but I really think these hardliners need to chillax! Is their world going to collapse because little Jimmy Noplay is buying a clone of their wet dream...I think not!;)

I can see the headlines now...

THE DOW DROPS 1000 POINTS BECAUSE OF THE SX MM CLONE!
Click to expand...


LOL!
 
#178
IotaNet said:
... what the heck, I'll throw some $h!t into the game. :cool:

I imagine that most people will upgrade their SX MM lookalikes with new electronics. I know that Seymour Duncan used to sell something called the "Basslines MusicMan System" (http://namm.harmony-central.com/SNAMM03/Content/Seymour_Duncan/PR/New-MM-PUs.html) that consisted of a new pickup and preamp for about $250.

I don't know if it's still available but here is what someone did with that system and a Jay Turser Bass:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

YMMV.
Click to expand...

(Sniff, Sniff) Do I detect the smell of kerosene?????
 
#179
I'm one of the biggest stingray fans out there, but this simply doesn't bother me... Why?

Because outside of talkbass and other sites where a few of us go to flaunt our knowledge of bass gear, no one has ever heard of SX. The beginner's market will continue to be dominated by the Squires and OLPs... SX just isn't a threat at all to anything really.

Only way I would do it is if they came in black, then I'd get a graphite neck, basslines pickups, and new hardware and get pretty much everything upgraded except the body. I guess that would cost about the same as a regular stingray... but haha, it probably would sound pretty cool.
 
#180
As a great stingray fan, I can't see the problem. SX will not hurt EB/MM sales one bit. OLP is another story, but the bottom line is that these SXs may be the "gateway drug" to a life of Stingray worship! I see nothing wrong with that.

As for copying the Stingray. I can see the point, but in this world, popular designs get copied. I think it's a good thing, many kids and not so kids maintain their interst in music at least partially because they play an instrument that at least looks like something real pros use. That is an important consolation early on when you can't play worth a darn!:help:
 

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