Tabs=Bad. & No, This 'Isn't' in the Wrong Category

[Evan Ciambrone]

First. I didn't post this in tabs because I wouldn't get an objective opinion there. I don't use tabs but out of curiousity I look at Tabs for certain songs. Yesterday I checked the tabs for Bass part on the Go Go's, 'Head Over Heels' and of course it was mostly wrong. Sure, they get the starting notes write (in the wrong key sometimes) but every search I made on the internet for these tabs was mostly wrong. They always leave out some notes. Also, every guitarist I've worked with that uses Tabs plays the songs wrong. I read music but when I sit down to figure out a song's Bass part (notes & rythym I don't use notation and just write it like this, E is first E, E2 is 1st Octave, E3 is second Octave, and so on and then I write the timing above like 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 or 1 e an a 2 e an a......and so on and I write in things like ties, and stacatto signs above and make notes 'stop' or slide down, etc.
I just think if people start out playing Bass with the Tab method they might as well learn to really read music instead.

"write" "curiousity"
I just don't see why people spell things wrong. Almost every time I look at post someone spelled something wrong in it. I write with good spelling and punctuation. I even use things like commas, semi-colons, colons- even hyphens. I just don't see why, with every modern internet browser and text entry box containing spell check, that people can't get it right.

Get off your soapbox.

 

[anonymous122511]

Almost every time I look at post someone spelled something wrong in it. I write with good spelling and punctuation.

But lousy grammar.

Get off your soapbox.

After you.

 

[OOZMAN]

And what exactly do you know what John Dowland thought about notation...or anything else for that matter?
Please do be specific.

I find it very difficult to believe someone who is fluent with standard notation would use tab. It's no faster, it has no rhythmic values and it's useless to any other instrument. It certainly isn't used by any of the "professionals" I've worked with.

Have you not seen modern tablature? One should not question another's knowledge without being knowledgeable himself.

 

[Evan Ciambrone]

But lousy grammar.



After you.

That's the joke. It's a satire. Does that require explanation? Don't you get tired of seeing the same things debated repeatedly? Is there any point of trying to contribute anything to a topic that has been beat to death? Aren't you just making things worse by even entertaining these topics, rather than telling someone that there is no value to their post, and that it has been covered already? Should I keep asking questions? Are you still mad? Will you get over it?

 

[anonymous122511]

Have you not seen modern tablature? One should not question another's knowledge without being knowledgeable himself.

No, why would I have? I know standard notation.

For curiosity's sake I just did a search for some tab and found nothing but the same old useless ascii crap. If there's some new and improved tab with rhythmic values they're hiding it dude. Even with rhythmic values it's still instrument specific and useless for charting leadsheets. There's no legitimate argument for the use of tab in a professional situation. It's laughable.

That's the joke. It's a satire. Does that require explanation? Don't you get tired of seeing the same things debated repeatedly? Is there any point of trying to contribute anything to a topic that has been beat to death? Aren't you just making things worse by even entertaining these topics, rather than telling someone that there is no value to their post, and that it has been covered already? Should I keep asking questions? Are you still mad? Will you get over it?

Um, ok.....sure.
Do I need to point out you're here too Mr. Satire?

Look, I don't believe for a new york minute I'm gonna change any hardcore tabwit's mind. But if I can rattle the cage for a few seconds and steer even one new player away from it I've done the world a service.

 

[JimmyM]

Look, I don't believe for a new york minute I'm gonna change any hardcore tabwit's mind. But if I can rattle the cage for a few seconds and steer even one new player away from it I've done the world a service.

no doubt. everyone is free to seek their own level, but i don't know why those who use tab would try to argue it's on the same level as notation.

 

[Pacman]

Tab *IS* on the same level as notation! Learn only TAB, no need to learn notation.


Especially if you live in the midwest - I'll be needing those gigs....

 

[Febs]

as a player for over 25 years, i personally love, and use the rhythmic notation tab.. you know, the 4 line bass tab with the rhythmic stems connected. I find it to be a more modern way of writing music and more practical. ESPECIALLY when a part is to be played in a certain area on the neck.

If this is true, can you explain to me why I have never, in all my years of playing and in thousands of paid gigs, been given a chart written in tab rather than standard notation? Every chart that I have ever received where the arranger has wanted a specific line to be played, it's been written in standard notation. Tab is simply not used in professional reading situations. Why is that?

No doubt knowing the notes on your neck is mandatory and i would never say the ability to read notes should be lost. However todays music doesnt call for it as much as there is more than 1 open D on the neck.

My bass only has one open D. But if you mean that the bass has more than one D on the neck, that has been true of stringed instruments for hundreds of years, yet I have never seen any grass roots movement among cello, doublebass, violin, viola, etc. players to move away from standard notation and towards tab.

on a saxophone, flute, trumpet, etc.. there is 1 position for each note..

No, that's not right. Google "alternate sax fingerings" or "alternate trumpet fingerings."

but on guitars and basses, a clearer explanation is needed and number tab is the best way to do it.

I disagree. Even if we accept for the sake of argument the premise that tab is better than standard notation for showing where on the neck a specific note should be played, it is indisputably worse than standard notation in terms of communicating every other relevant piece of musical information. For example, show me a piece of tab that makes it clear what key a tune is in, shows a modulation, or distinguishes between an augmented fourth or a diminished fifth.

Tab may be useful in certain educational situations like those described by electric coyote, but it is not and never will be a replacement or acceptable substitute for standard notation on the bandstand.

 

[JimmyM]

Have you not seen modern tablature? One should not question another's knowledge without being knowledgeable himself.

i've seen it. and by the time you learn what the stems mean, you might as well learn how to read music, because the stems denoting the rhythms are half the information.

and jon, don't worry...there is so much resistance to the idea of learning how to read music in this thread that it proves you'll always be able to find a gig.

 

[JimmyM]

I disagree. Even if we accept for the sake of argument the premise that tab is better than standard notation for showing where on the neck a specific note should be played, it is indisputably worse than standard notation in terms of communicating every other relevant piece of musical information. For example, show me a piece of tab that makes it clear what key a tune is in, shows a modulation, or distinguishes between an augmented fourth or a diminished fifth.

100% correct. in addition, i can figure out where to put my fingers without needing tab. only beginners need that. maybe my own fingering won't be the same as the original, but maybe it will be an even better way to do it. whatever happened to the joy of discovering stuff on your own? why do people want every little thing spoonfed to them? isn't it enough to be given the notes?

 

[Febs]

I guess he's being sarcastic? I sincerely hope so and doesnt believe this.

I guess someone has Tab instructions books for sale?

Of course he is being sarcastic. His post is essentially saying, "it's good if you don't learn to read, because there will be more gigs for people like me who can." I'm not sure how you missed that.

 

[dbhokie]

I recently started gigging again, a lot of songs that are being played now as filler covers, I don't know. So sue me I stick to the things I used to love, some of the new stuff is a bit foreign. Nonetheless I would absolutely love it if there were somewhere where I could easily pick up musical notation at the drop of a hat, when I get told about 12 songs we are doing in 2 days that I am unfamiliar with. I work a job as well as my hobby, and sure I love to sit and listen and figure stuff out myself without tabs or notation, or make my own notation, but at the same time, that just simply isn't feasible all the time. Not to mention I would rather improv a lot of it anyways, who wants to imitate (imo), be yourself and find yourself and let the music flow. For all the griping though is there anywhere on the net that is a good resource for notation. You tell me and I'll go there all the time when these spur of the moment things kick up with songs I don't even know.

 

[NoiseNinja]

I don't get your point, sure a lot of tabs are wrong. But if the same people were to write it down on note sheets it would be the same problem. They just got it wrong, that's not the systems fault. Also if you know how the bass line sounds from listening it should be easy too get the rythm right which is what the tabs are missing out on. Another thing that's nice with tabs is that you have standalised signs for slides, hammer-ons, pull-offs vibrato and harmonics, as well as you can read exactly what position you are supposed to use.
A combination of note sheets and tabs might even help you read music if you are not so in to the note system.

 

[Jhengsman]

100% correct. in addition, i can figure out where to put my fingers without needing tab. only beginners need that. maybe my own fingering won't be the same as the original, but maybe it will be an even better way to do it. whatever happened to the joy of discovering stuff on your own? why do people want every little thing spoonfed to them? isn't it enough to be given the notes?

Its human nature to want that spoon.

Coming from a sax background we hand fingering charts but nobody learned a song by looking at those charts however they could suggest an alternate fingering. As I see the comments on tab sites I read things like thats not the song, so and so did it in Ab and you tabbed it in G. Or they will say something like "that's not the song in the 63rd bar, well I guess they won't say bar , Jamerson hit a flat 7th on the third beat and you have a 5th".

Then there is the other "error", the artist we are coping from used the third string on a particular note when the tab writer to choose the second string.

 

[electracoyote]

I find it very difficult to believe someone who is fluent with standard notation would use tab.

I think you just solved part of the mystery. People who are new to standard notation, but desire to play something more complex than they can read in standard, are probably the ones most tempted to use TAB. And musicians "fluent" in standard notation are the relatively dedicated minority among musicians.

And a lot of these comments are condemning the sentiment that TAB is "better" than standard notation, but, after reading the entire thread, I only heard maybe one poster saying that. I think most of us agree that standard notation is generally a more thorough form of notating music. It's obviously more recognized and prevelant in more elite or formal settings.

To clarify, people who support the use of TAB see it as beneficial to certain players in certain situations, and only one tool for figuring out how a song should/could be played. To say TAB is universally useless is just obtuse.

And to say "bad TAB is bad" is redundant. It's like saying "dumb thread is dumb," which is actually a lot more meaningful in this case.

EDIT: One reason there is so much inaccurate TAB out there is, it was being illegally distributed via the internet, and the "good TAB" free sites have largely been shut down. My understanding is there are a few pay sites that will honor the artist royalty and copyright, and you generally find more accurate TAB on those sites. But most of the free stuff is horrible, the amaturish remnants left by uploaders who can barely play and are partially tone deaf. I discourage my students from downloading TAB. If they do, I encourage them not to waste time on it until I've looked it over and made corrections. If it's a song within their ability to read, we find or notate it in standard.

For musicians who, for various legitimate reasons, haven't learned to sight read or can't find the song in standard notation, the judicious use of TAB is not a crime people. However, snobbery is always ugly.

 

[jabsys]

I can read & do prefer standard notation but I use tabs a lot simply because sheet music isn't available for what I want to play.

 

[BasHermus]

I really don't get the point behind much of what is said in this thread.

The main purpose of any kind of music notation is to communicate as easily and accurately as possible how a certain piece of music should be played. You learn it because it enables a better way of sharing (musical) information...
Learning how to read music notation can never be a goal on its own.

For stringed instruments like bass and guitars, modern tabs (and I'm not referring to those ASCI ones) is easier and more accurate (assuming it has been written down correctly, but that is a different discussion) than 'regular' notation.

Arguments like "too lazy to to learn classical music reading" "it's just a shortcut" or whatever are silly.
Why learn something when there is a better/easier way.
It is the same argument as saying: using the internet is stupid, because people are too lazy to go to the library nowadays...


By the way, I have no problem reading standard notation (for piano), it just feels somehow wrong for bass and guitar.

 

[SteveC]

There is no substitute for reading and understanding music notation. It's how musicians communicate. I can think of one way that TAB can be useful - indicating playing position. There are a number of ways/places to play a number of notes on the fretboard. Depending on the line/passage you are playing, some may work better than others. I suppose TAB is a good way of showing this.

 

[Febs]

For stringed instruments like bass and guitars, modern tabs (and I'm not referring to those ASCI ones) is easier and more accurate (assuming it has been written down correctly, but that is a different discussion) than 'regular' notation.

I disagree on both counts. I do not find tab either easier or more accurate than standard notation.

Let me ask you this: are you talking about using tab to learn a particular song, or using tab to play a particular song without sitting down and learning it in advance? I can't imagine any situation where I'm sight-reading a piece of music on a gig or in the studio where I would prefer tab to standard notation.

 

[electracoyote]

In case you forgot the original point of this thread, it was to ask why spend time learning TAB when you could devote that time to reading music

It takes hardly any time at all to figure out how to read TAB. There is no investment of time.

Standard notation by itself does not a great musician make, it only means you dedicated yourself to learning one system of written music. Period.

The two systems can be productively used in tandem.

Your question has been answered ad nauseum by some pretty astute posters.

And to answer your other question about why I'm here: I have every right to be, and clearing up the misconceptions and redundancies is just as good a reason as anyone else's for contributing to this thread.

It's like so many elitist/exclusivist discussions on the internet that involve the pretense "A is universally bad, B is good." They are doomed to fail.

That's why comments from posters who read standard yet see the point of TAB are so much more balanced and informative.