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Taking a Stance

do you have another offer from another band? if yes, and it's a better one why not just take it? if no that's not too cool i guess. either way if i were the band leader i wouldn't be sweating someone telling me to hurry up and make them an offer or not.

not saying you're wrong to want to do whatever it is you want to do, but i am saying that if you want to play with the start up it seems you have to play on their terms. and if you want to play with someone else just go do it.
 
I am the band leader of an extremely busy 9 piece band. Now, we command fees in the $4000 to $6000 range and are very well payed.

Hey, if it was your band I was auditioning for, I would have waited a year and jumped through as many hoops you put in front of me. But for a start up band that I am not sure has a clear direction or strategic business plan in place, no way!

BTW all, Pro Bass player is just a marketing term I use. Pro is relative. If it's a red flag, so be it. I only use that term for strat ups.

Still no regrets.

The comments here are really good and informative.Thanks

blue
 
Look at it from the band's point of view...

They want to give everyone a fair chance - even if they're a startup project and have no material written yet.

When my band was auditioning singers (granted, we had lots of original instrumental material and encouraged auditioning singers to write for the audition to instrumental MP3's we emailed) we had a list of guys waiting for us to give them a slot. We found our singer about 3 people into the audition process, but still had to be fair to everyone, and had about 5 more guys to go.

We strung our new singer along while we auditioned these other guys, and we are SO glad he held in there for us because he's a perfect fit. Then again, we were pretty established musically with tons of material, so maybe in your case, it's a bit different.
 
I auditioned for a start up band last week, decent guys, everyone was adequate. The idea of doing covers with a heavy rock twist was good. I would say I was still interested in the opportunity after the 3 song audition.

They were to bring in another bass player to try out this week Wednesday and would let me know where I stood this Thursday.

Yesterday I received and e-mail stating the other bass player couldn’t make it and they rescheduled him for next week.

I wrote back and told them I liked them and was still interested, however, they would have to give me a yes or no now because I had another offer from a band.

My Reasoning

The reason I gave them an ultimatum, I told them I was a pro-level bass player. If this was an established band with shows lined up I would have never put the screws to them. Since I was only marginally interested and it’s a start up, I am not going to sit around for a week waiting for a decision on a marginal opportunity.

Have I missed out on something, maybe? I have no regrets on how I handled this.

What do you think.


You sound like a dude who needs to start his own band...That's a compliment by the way.

But I would say you were in the right. Many people forget the 'business' side of the music business...this would be listed there. It's called Oppurtunity Costs..
 
When I was younger I would have done the exact same thing. I was very black & white about things (in band situations particularly) back then and couldnt stand getting jerked around. I understand where you are coming from, however I learned that lots of people were put off by my behavior and didnt want to be under pressure to always do what they say, when they say they would. Or make immediate decisions.

Now that im older, I really dont put pressure on anyone like that anymore, and things generally go alot smoother. If I didnt have another offer, then I would have just let it go and let them make a decision. It would then be entirely up to me whether or not I would take it at that point. If it went longer than I was willing to wait, if/when they called to offer me the spot I would have just dealt with it at that time.
 
If you really had an offer from another band, then sure it's OK to tell them that. But if you didn't then, it's a lie, plain and simple. And if you get caught in the lie, your image of "pro" will fade into "wanna-be". There's no reason to lie. There's already enough BS in this business, and there's no need to add more. The same way that you wouldn't want some band that you're auditioning for to BS you, you shouldn't BS them. A "pro-level" player doesn't need to do that.

I've been in this situation before, and I will usually tell them something like "Thanks for the audition, and I'm really interested in your band. I understand that you'll want to audition others, but also please understand that I'll still be looking for work until a decision is reached." No BS is required.


There's so many people who will complain about the BS in the music biz, but too few people will do the one thing that can change it: Be Honest.
 
do you have another offer from another band? if yes, and it's a better one why not just take it? if no that's not too cool i guess. either way if i were the band leader i wouldn't be sweating someone telling me to hurry up and make them an offer or not.

not saying you're wrong to want to do whatever it is you want to do, but i am saying that if you want to play with the start up it seems you have to play on their terms. and if you want to play with someone else just go do it.

+1 (and to Jive's comments too). If there was no such other offer, not only is your integrity compromised, but your reputation as well, if you ever run into these guys again. "Hey, how's that other band you joined going? Who was it you wound up playing with anyway?" "Err.. umm... er... it didn't work out..."

The whole point of auditioning is to try out different candidates and if they hit a delay, they hit a delay, you can't fault them for that. I can see telling them that you aren't going to be waiting on them if any other offers come through, but I don't see that you need to burn bridges with them over having to wait a week before they make their decision.

Of course, if you weren't really interested, you weren't really interested. You can just say so, politely. I was just communicating with a band about auditioning for them, they sent me a song list and it was all Crazy Bitch and stuff like that, and I thought, my wife will have a cow if I'm going out playing this all the time. So I just told them thanks but no thanks, it wouldn't be a good match.
 
I am the band leader of an extremely busy 9 piece band. While our turnover rate is virtually non-existent, we do need to hold auditions from time to time. The fact that they wanted to audition the other bass player tells me that they were most likely not convinced that you were 'the one' on the spot. But there are other possibilities as well; maybe someone in the band has a relationship with the other auditioning bass player. If the other candidate is indeed friends with someone associated with the band, a necessity to reschedule would simply go without saying. Either way, as a band leader, I would have viewed your approach as a red flag. It is incredibly important for band members to be flexible, and to be selfless team players with some ability to compromise from time to time. When I am evaluating talent, the candidates nature , personality, and level of professionalism are weighed equally with musical abilty. There are a lot of great players out there to choose from so personality is key. If someone told me they were a pro player, I would deduce that they are A)insecure about their playing, or B) think they are better than everyone else. In your post, you take a 'well they are just a 'startup' attitude and 'I don't really care' sort of approach in my view. I would bet they have picked up on this...another red flag. Every successful band was just a startup at one point and btw, it is at the startup point that such an attitude can be most harmful. In order to get a cover band off the ground, the players must be even more dedicated during the start up phase because you will have to play less desirable venues for less money in order to get tighter as a band and begin to build a reputation. During our first year, the members of my 9 piece band did whatever it took to gain exposure and experience, often playing for $500 or less. Now, we command fees in the $4000 to $6000 range and are very well payed by the 'it' clubs of the moment. Chances are, the members of the band you auditioned for are looking for the level of dedication required to be successful and the maturity to understand that startups are an 'investment' at first. If I had auditioned you, I would have appreciated your ultimatum in the sense that it provides a valuable insight into how you might face adversity. In the meantime, I would continue my search for a player that told me they would be relly excited to be a part of the project and ready to put in a lot of hard work should they earn a position in the project. Best wishes.

I understand what your saying here but Blue is talking about an unknown start up band with nothing to show for it. Wanting to know quickly where he stands is not a big deal. In the case of a band like yours..thats a different story. Blue myself and I'm sure lots of other bassists would handle a band like yours way different.
 
We strung our new singer along while we auditioned these other guys, and we are SO glad he held in there for us because he's a perfect fit.

See...this just makes no sense to me. You strung the guy along and he's the perfect fit. You had no sense of how good the fit was when he auditioned? I just don't agree with the concept of "being fair" to everyone such as you used it. How fair is it to continue to audition guys when you've already found the "perfect fit?" Assuming you are meaning that you later discovered the guy was the "perfect fit" did his audition not shed any light on that at all?
 
I understand what your saying here but Blue is talking about an unknown start up band with nothing to show for it. Wanting to know quickly where he stands is not a big deal. In the case of a band like yours..thats a different story. Blue myself and I'm sure lots of other bassists would handle a band like yours way different.

But, faulkner was also saying that his band was once a start up band.

Some people's professionality is motivated by outcomes and circumstances. These are the guys who will step it up for a good circumstance, but won't for a bad one. There's nothing wrong with this at all, and most people are like this.

On the other hand some people are professional by their character. It doesn't matter what kind of circumstance it is, they will be pro because it is their character to be pro. Everyone wants a guy like this.

A wise man once told me, "How you do one thing, is usually how you will do everything". I don't expect someone who flakes on bad situation to all of a sudden become dependable for a great situation. They may try for a while, but unless they make a conscious effort and put in practice, they will fall back into their old habits sooner or later, no matter how great the situation is. It's one of the reasons why we see so many celebrities go off the deep end and throw away great situations that people would kill for.
 
Blue is talking about an unknown start up band with nothing to show for it. Wanting to know quickly where he stands is not a big deal. QUOTE]

it's not a big deal at all. fabricating an offer (if that's what he did) to prod someone into taking action before they're ready is. even refusing to respect anothers right to take whatever time they need to reach a conclusion (regardless of another offer) can easily step into "big deal" territory.
 
I wrote back and told them I liked them and was still interested, however, they would have to give me a yes or no now because I had another offer from a band.

The reason I gave them an ultimatum, I told them I was a pro-level bass player. If this was an established band with shows lined up I would have never put the screws to them. Since I was only marginally interested and it’s a start up, I am not going to sit around for a week waiting for a decision on a marginal opportunity.

Have I missed out on something, maybe? I have no regrets on how I handled this.

What do you think.

If you have no regrets, then why are you asking or even putting it out there??? And also it seems like you're really not interested in a start up situation (and all that implies) in a way that is either fair to you or that band, aka, "marginally" interested.

They *may* be jerking you around, but I think you are definitely jerking them around, sorry to say, and with all due respect.
 
See...this just makes no sense to me. You strung the guy along and he's the perfect fit. You had no sense of how good the fit was when he auditioned? I just don't agree with the concept of "being fair" to everyone such as you used it. How fair is it to continue to audition guys when you've already found the "perfect fit?" Assuming you are meaning that you later discovered the guy was the "perfect fit" did his audition not shed any light on that at all?

I get what you're saying here...does sound contradictory on my part. I worded it funny, I suppose.

The truth is, I knew deep down this was our guy after his audition, but the rest of the band wanted to keep auditioning others just to make sure no one was any better, or had anything else to offer that our current singer didn't. That's what the audition process is all about. On top of that, we had already promised them auditions (they wrote melodies to instrumental songs we sent over).

They put in an equal amount of work just like the guy we thought was the best, so we gave the others a chance too.

It was like the guy we picked set a benchmark at that time for exactly what we were looking for, but if someone would've come in and BLOWN US AWAY, we would've gone with them for sure.
 
Right now my band is currently looking for a drummer, and if we auditioned someone none of us knew, and he gave us an ultimatum, i would just let him go.

If i wasn't sure enough to say "Yes! You're it" right away when he played with us, then I dont want to hang around and have him give me orders before hes even in the band.

If you have something else, go do it. If you have nothing else going on, why not wait ?
And if you're going to be in a band, it will never get past the 'start up' phase if you don't believe in it.

Don't go if you're not going to bring your heart.
 
Excellent posts Jive, there is much wisdom there.

Blue, we are dying to find out, do you really have another offer or did you lie?

You see, I read BassBully's posts and he is defending your position but I suspect he has assumed you are being completely honest. I wonder if that position of support would change if he thought you were playing head games with the band.

However, I'm not convinced the offer is there, We have asked outright and you have responded but you are avoiding that question. That is seriously a red flag, people avoid questions they don't want to give the answer to, if you had an offer I suspect you would want to quickly address it so that we are not left wondering if you have any credibility or not.

So, whats the deal? Did you go to an audition, tell them "I'm a Pro" and then get insulted that they didn't take you at your word and are now playing games with them in an effort to make them commit to you?

What other band made the offer? Did you audition for them? Or did you turn down an audition with them as a personal choice of your own and are now bitter with the first band for not doing there thing on your schedule?

I'm also curious about the questions asked earlier, how many auditions have you been to and how many offers to join the band resulted?

-eSmith.