• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Taking a Stance

I don't see what the problem is with waiting a week. It's not a long time and it seems like a reasonable thing. It's happened to me before and I just went with the flow. You can't blame people for wanting to see what their options are.

If you're really on the fence about it anyways then why give an ultimatum? Personally, if I was the band I would be instantly turned off by that. I just don't see what good can come of it.
 
See...this just makes no sense to me. You strung the guy along and he's the perfect fit. You had no sense of how good the fit was when he auditioned? I just don't agree with the concept of "being fair" to everyone such as you used it. How fair is it to continue to audition guys when you've already found the "perfect fit?" Assuming you are meaning that you later discovered the guy was the "perfect fit" did his audition not shed any light on that at all?

I would say its more than fair if the other candidates were already scheduled before that 'perfect fit' was found. You took the time to arrange it, they took the time to schedule it, you should at least honor the audition date you set.

Also, one audition can be pretty hard to determine whether someone will be a perfect fit.
 
I don’t mean to be cocky and I have even surprised at myself a little bit in regards to how I have handled this. But when I think about what has happened in the last year, and yes I have been burnt by shady stuff like the “weasel” bass player who’s a friend of someone in the band, behind the scenes BS. I am cool with how I handled this.

It’s a case where, whether they know it or not I have more to offer them than they do me. I show up prepared, I have stage presence that fits most bands (not all, I’m not 18)I am reliable, I work well in a team setting and for the most part I don’t take myself that serious.

With all that said, I have been doing this band stuff ever and enjoying it for 40 years. I am not lowering myself to waiting on start up guys that really didn’t sell me in the 1st place.

I would hope you older guys from my vintage understand and appreciate where I’m coming from.
 
I have to respect the notion where a band is coming from wherein they are clear that they will make a decision AFTER they've told all the people they would allow to audition to actually audition. That is an audition method that shows integrity and fairness, IMO. If I, as a player/auditionee/potential new bandmate am second-guessing the level of honesty in that fair and rational approach and whether they're telling the truth this early in the potential relationship, I think it's probably "game over" before it even begun.
 
I am not lowering myself to waiting on start up guys that really didn’t sell me in the 1st place.

I would hope you older guys from my vintage understand and appreciate where I’m coming from.

I'm sorry, but I must respectfully (as possible) dissagree. I do not think you ever really wanted to join this band in the first place, and that it was an opportunity for a power play in which you, demonstrably, don't regret. I am not 18, and I just hope that what is unsaid (that when you're "Pro" and "of my vintage", then you have the right to handle/approach things in the manner you have) is the right model and example for younger and less experienced players to aspire to when they do, by some measure, become "Pro" and "of my vintage".
 
I am the band leader of an extremely busy 9 piece band. While our turnover rate is virtually non-existent, we do need to hold auditions from time to time. The fact that they wanted to audition the other bass player tells me that they were most likely not convinced that you were 'the one' on the spot. But there are other possibilities as well; maybe someone in the band has a relationship with the other auditioning bass player. If the other candidate is indeed friends with someone associated with the band, a necessity to reschedule would simply go without saying. Either way, as a band leader, I would have viewed your approach as a red flag. It is incredibly important for band members to be flexible, and to be selfless team players with some ability to compromise from time to time. When I am evaluating talent, the candidates nature , personality, and level of professionalism are weighed equally with musical abilty. There are a lot of great players out there to choose from so personality is key. If someone told me they were a pro player, I would deduce that they are A)insecure about their playing, or B) think they are better than everyone else. In your post, you take a 'well they are just a 'startup' attitude and 'I don't really care' sort of approach in my view. I would bet they have picked up on this...another red flag. Every successful band was just a startup at one point and btw, it is at the startup point that such an attitude can be most harmful. In order to get a cover band off the ground, the players must be even more dedicated during the start up phase because you will have to play less desirable venues for less money in order to get tighter as a band and begin to build a reputation. During our first year, the members of my 9 piece band did whatever it took to gain exposure and experience, often playing for $500 or less. Now, we command fees in the $4000 to $6000 range and are very well payed by the 'it' clubs of the moment. Chances are, the members of the band you auditioned for are looking for the level of dedication required to be successful and the maturity to understand that startups are an 'investment' at first. If I had auditioned you, I would have appreciated your ultimatum in the sense that it provides a valuable insight into how you might face adversity. In the meantime, I would continue my search for a player that told me they would be relly excited to be a part of the project and ready to put in a lot of hard work should they earn a position in the project. Best wishes.

couldn't put it better myself
 
I think some of you are missing the point.

•This a start up band that I had little to no interest in.
•Right or wrong I am not waiting or jumping through hoops for start ups.

There are always exceptions if a start up came along where there was something really cool about the guys, the music or something I would have waited or jumped through hoops.
 
Chances are, the members of the band you auditioned for are looking for the level of dedication required to be successful and the maturity to understand that startups are an 'investment' at first.

I was there, I really doubt that was the case.Believe me. I have been around and seem some things in the last 40 years.Not everything but some.
 
Right or wrong I am not waiting or jumping through hoops for start ups.

In other words, you lied.

So, with that determined it is clear that what you did is best for the band, they sure don't need a guy like you.

You 100% are NOT professional and simply put, there is only one way to deal with a liar, and that is to not deal with them at all.

Your own actions make you unfit for any band.

-eSmith.
 
I think some of you are missing the point.

•This a start up band that I had little to no interest in.
•Right or wrong I am not waiting or jumping through hoops for start ups.

There are always exceptions if a start up came along where there was something really cool about the guys, the music or something I would have waited or jumped through hoops.

No, the point is pretty clear. If you were only marginally interested in joining these guys you should have told them exactly that. As far as they know, theyre auditioning another guy next week. If he doesnt fit they'll call you back, and youre not going to play with them.

No one asked you to jump through any hoops, they only asked you to wait until they audition this other guy who was most likely, already scheduled to audition at the time of your audition. If you want to be a jerk about it, thats your right, but you seem very unprofessional about this whole situation, and then you come here and post about it asking what we think. Well, we've told you, it seems you don't like what we have to say.
 
In other words, you lied.

So, with that determined it is clear that what you did is best for the band, they sure don't need a guy like you.

You 100% are NOT professional and simply put, there is only one way to deal with a liar, and that is to not deal with them at all.

Your own actions make you unfit for any band.

-eSmith.

Its quite clear why bluewine is having such a hard time finding a band that will take him, and I presume it'll be a while more before he finds a band that will. And most likely, that band will split due to more unprofessional behavior.
 
It really sounds like you really didn't believe in this start up band at all... in that case why not simply let it go? I mean, if I'm in that situation I don't want them to invite me to join, because the answer will be "no"... so why would I care if they don't call me within a week?
 
I would hope you older guys from my vintage understand and appreciate where I’m coming from.

I don't care if you're 16, 60, or 600, lying and playing headgames is immature.

I don't care if it's music, accounting, or selling drugs, lying and playing headgames is unprofessional.

Walk the walk, or cut the talk, bro.
 
In other words, you lied.

So, with that determined it is clear that what you did is best for the band, they sure don't need a guy like you.

You 100% are NOT professional and simply put, there is only one way to deal with a liar, and that is to not deal with them at all.

Your own actions make you unfit for any band.

-eSmith.

Wow, that's seems more harshly put than necessary. I'd think you could separate condemnation of the actions from condemnation of the person a bit more than this.

A "guy like him" is a guy who wants to get into a band and is having a hard way to go. If there is no other offer, I assume he believed that he was making a calculated bargaining maneuver. I agree wholeheartedly that would be the wrong thing to do and be a compromise of integrity, but it's a bad move made by a person. It happens. It can be moved past.
 
I agree wholeheartedly that would be the wrong thing to do and be a compromise of integrity, but it's a bad move made by a person. It happens. It can be moved past.

It can be moved passed, assuming the next people who deal with him are not privvy to the previous situation (which they most likely wouldnt be), however, Id say that there are a good number of people reading this thread who would not recommend 'a guy like him'.
 
I understand it is harsh, that is kind of the point. I'm not seeing the disconnect you are. It was one guy with his own lies he spread. The lie wasn't sitting around waiting for some innocent person to trip over it. No, the lie was created in his head in an effort to manipulate others. Then placed in front of the band by him.

I think seperating the two is an attempt to distance the guy from his own actions. What is the point of that other than to help him get away with acting like that. No, he needs to hear how we really view it if he's going to learn anything from this. I'm not here to protect him from the results of his own actions.

The only reason he's complaining about it here is the reaction he got didn't stroke his ego as he desired... So THEY are all A$$Hats..... Not him...... I just can't buy into faulty logic like that.

"calculated bargaining maneuver" I call BS. thats just sugarcoating the fact that he is a manipulative liar. Calculated maybe but in no way a legitimate bargaining maneuver.

Mistakes do happen but this wasn't a mistake, it was deliberate. I can't respect that. It's only claimed as a mistake when someone gets caught.

-eSmith.
 
In all respect, I can understand that you don't want to be in a startup. But, they still deserve respect as people. Every band was once a start up.

And from the band's point of view, they may see you as a startup. I know that even after 10 years in the scene around here, I'm still a start up. I still need people to vouch for me, I still have to hustle for gigs, I still have to sell myself, and I still have to jump through hoops only to fail. I may get calls now and then to sub, get to play in cool bands here and there, and get months now and then when I'm gigging alot, but I'm nowhere near the pros in this area that are not considered startups. Not even close.