Tal Wilkenfeld Redux...her CD

[Phil Smith]

My point is the one I made at the last of my post-Youtube clips do not an accurate representation make. Few people if any mentioned her solo CD, it was all about whether she was getting that attention because she was young/a girl/hot/playing on a Jeff Beck tour. That's like someone who has never heard Jaco's first album in it's entirety relying on Youtube clips from "Saturday Night Special" and that DCI video shot in 1985 to get an opinion.
I decided to listen again to her project and get an opinion. As my grandmother said, we've all been given two ears but only one mouth for a reason, so I thought I'd use mine before posting, Since the thread was shut down, I just started a new one to speak my peace.
I'll check on the legality of what I can and can't post, John, and I'll see what I can do within reason....

I think youtube clips do make an accurate representation especially if they're live and candid. In my mind they tell you more about a player than what you may hear in a more controled environment where one can make any number of takes, punch in any number of parts.

You seem to be trying to make you're own argument. I don't see where people are saying that she can't play, I see them saying she's over hyped and that's why people keep asking what's so special about her other than her gift of landing high profile gigs.

 

[harrybosch]

I think Tal's CD is very good, more listenable than most CD's from bass players. The tunes are for the most part interesting with nice melodies. To say her soloing is mature because she doesn't use the hey look-at-me double thump crap and such is a bit misleading. I don't think Tal has the chops to play the flashy stuff. Nothing wrong with that. She uses what she does have to great effect.

 

[idoru]

Y'know what? After watching a few of those youtube clips, what strikes me is that she could stand to refine her playing position a bit - that angle through her wrists makes my tendons ache in sympathy.

c-

 

[Bass_Thumper]

I don't think Tal has the chops to play the flashy stuff.

Since none of us actually know her or have jammed with her, how do we know what chops she has? I do know from what I've heard and seen in the Jeff Beck DVD, she serves the song as opposed to her ego. She supports Beck and doesn't get caught up in a bunch of guitar-like wankery.

 

[J. Crawford]

Ive had it for a while now, and its still one of my favorite albums of all times. She plays the bass as a bassist, and solos as a bassist, where lots of solo acts try to be flashy guys playing a bass.

There is a difference in a bass player, and a bassist.

 

[harrybosch]

Since none of us actually know her or have jammed with her, how do we know what chops she has? I do know from what I've heard and seen in the Jeff Beck DVD, she serves the song as opposed to her ego. She supports Beck and doesn't get caught up in a bunch of guitar-like wankery.

Again, I don't think she is currently capable of guitar-like wankery. Her technique suggests as much. That's not to say that if she were capable she would wank over every song. I don't think she would would.

 

[Siri]

Her music speaks for it's self, have a listen. Tal's album is one of the first I purchased from iTunes after getting an ipod last month. $10 well spent. The more I listen the more I like it. The music is well composed, arranged with excellent musicianship by all. No prima donna here, she plays, guitarist plays, keyboard plays... Can't wait to see them live.
Tal is one of the young players I am following as they move through their prime years, also Dereck Trucks, and Warren Hayes.

 

[aikakone]

I am quite curious on her album. If I want a digital copy, is it iTunes or bust? I don't use iTunes (and I don't plan on starting), so that would be a disappointment for me.

 

[hdracer]

I am quite curious on her album. If I want a digital copy, is it iTunes or bust? I don't use iTunes (and I don't plan on starting), so that would be a disappointment for me.

I have not been able to find it in MP3 Amazon only has it on CD. It is only $6.93 for the cd from itunes. Just use your windows media player to convert it to MP3

 

[b_carville]

I think she's a wonderful player and I really get tired of the mud slung at her.And it's not just on talkbass! You should hear the local wankers(who are not fit to be her roadie) my way mouth off about her.

I enjoyed her playing before I knew she was young & female.A friend burned me some of her solo CD & gave it to me.I thought Tal was a guy's name.I didn't know she was a young woman until I saw the Beck videos.My jaw dropped when I saw how young she was. As others have stated she plays with an "old soul". I find her playing tasteful and melodic.She always seems to do the right thing at the right time.Her playing always makes me smile!

Tal will have a great career long after most of her detractors have hung it up.She's on her way!

 

[Roy Vogt]

I think youtube clips do make an accurate representation especially if they're live and candid. In my mind they tell you more about a player than what you may hear in a more controled environment where one can make any number of takes, punch in any number of parts.

You seem to be trying to make you're own argument. I don't see where people are saying that she can't play, I see them saying she's over hyped and that's why people keep asking what's so special about her other than her gift of landing high profile gigs.

What you don't hear on the Youtube clips is a complete artistic vision. There's probably a 16 year old Chinese boy on Youtube that can play faster and cleaner than any of us, but he's likely imitating something he picked up on Youtube from another player.
I'm going back to my Jaco argument-Jeff Berlin was right when he says that Jaco was not so much a master improviser as someone who came up with a new vocabulary on the bass guitar. The Youtube clips don't show that-you have to listen to Jaco's first album to get that across. Since I have been playing professionally for 35+ years, I can vouch for what an earthquake to music that entire album was because I was a young Pro at the time and it revolutionized my concepts and thoughts.
When I listen to a bassist, one of the first things I try to ascertain is "is he/she a musician or just a bassist?". You have to listen to a complete concept to get that. If you listen to a Youtube clip of Victor Wooten you will not get the concept of what he does as well as listening to Palmystery or SMV.
FWIW, Jaco's masterful solo on "Havona" (Heavy Weather) was punched in a section at a time.
IMHO, Transformation answers the question about "what's so special" that's why I started this thread....

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

MAKE
IT
STOP!

 

[Roy Vogt]

MAKE
IT
STOP!

It's like cable TV-just stop watching this channel

 

[Deep]

Tal is a wonderful player who has a mature approach to her playing and definitely has an old soul thing going on. And to watch her play with such enthusiasim is a real kick as to why we do this to begin with. It's like watching a kid on a rollercoaster having the time of their life. Isn't this how it should be?
If she was a violinist or pianist I don't think she would get bashed 'cuz those intruments are supposed to be "more fitting" of a young girl. Hey, the girl is just good. I applaud her.

 

[Phil Smith]

What you don't hear on the Youtube clips is a complete artistic vision. There's probably a 16 year old Chinese boy on Youtube that can play faster and cleaner than any of us, but he's likely imitating something he picked up on Youtube from another player.
I'm going back to my Jaco argument-Jeff Berlin was right when he says that Jaco was not so much a master improviser as someone who came up with a new vocabulary on the bass guitar. The Youtube clips don't show that-you have to listen to Jaco's first album to get that across. Since I have been playing professionally for 35+ years, I can vouch for what an earthquake to music that entire album was because I was a young Pro at the time and it revolutionized my concepts and thoughts.
When I listen to a bassist, one of the first things I try to ascertain is "is he/she a musician or just a bassist?". You have to listen to a complete concept to get that. If you listen to a Youtube clip of Victor Wooten you will not get the concept of what he does as well as listening to Palmystery or SMV.
FWIW, Jaco's masterful solo on "Havona" (Heavy Weather) was punched in a section at a time.
IMHO, Transformation answers the question about "what's so special" that's why I started this thread....

I don't think her CD is all that special though I see person after person in this thread talking about how it's the best thing since sliced bread. I don't listen to Wayne Krantz and so I can't really say whether the music is inspired by his style or inspired by her own style. I contrast that with Esperanza Spalding's CD and there's no mistake that it's her style and her vision and she's invested heavily in that vision by going out there promoting it and playing it.

But comparing Tal to Esperanza isn't really even fair because Esperanza is a dope bassist and a dope singer.

 

[Roy Vogt]

I don't think her CD is all that special though I see person after person in this thread talking about how it's the best thing since sliced bread. I don't listen to Wayne Krantz and so I can't really say whether the music is inspired by his style or inspired by her own style. I contrast that with Esperanza Spalding's CD and there's no mistake that it's her style and her vision and she's invested heavily in that vision by going out there promoting it and playing it.

But comparing Tal to Esperanza isn't really even fair because Esperanza is a dope bassist and a dope singer.

Wayne's hand is writ large of Tal's recording, she's using Keith Carlock and Wayne so I don't think there's any way of avoiding that.
Esperanza's a wonderful young talent, they both are. You could look at either of them and the attention from the Trades and Stars (Esperanza's played with all sort of luminaries on record such as Stanley Clarke and even played the Nobel Awards Ceremony for President Obama) and say they are both over-hyped. I don't think so, I think they're both really good at what they do.
The greatest thing since sliced bread? I'm afraid I have to go to Chick Corea, Herbie Hancock or John McLaughlin for that....

 

[JimmyM]

The greatest thing since sliced bread? I'm afraid I have to go to Chick Corea, Herbie Hancock or John McLaughlin for that....

for me i go to malcolm young and cliff williams

but look, tal's great, esperanza's great...their music may not be for everyone but it's quality, and whether or not tal got there on her looks or her money or whatever, she does deserve it. maybe the deification process is too soon, but it's not the first time it happened and it won't be the last. in the meantime, she's having fun and working hard and that ain't a bad thing. so everyone just calm down!

 

[Roy Vogt]

for me i go to malcolm young and cliff williams

but look, tal's great, esperanza's great...their music may not be for everyone but it's quality, and whether or not tal got there on her looks or her money or whatever, she does deserve it. maybe the deification process is too soon, but it's not the first time it happened and it won't be the last. in the meantime, she's having fun and working hard and that ain't a bad thing. so everyone just calm down!

Well now, only AC/DC can sound like AC/DC and Cliff is one of, if not, THE best Hard Rock bassist I've ever heard-that's a great rhythm section.
I had no idea Tal came from a monied background, but I guess you don't go from Australia and camp out in NYC and hang as a teenager if you're dirt poor.
I'm not sure anyone under 50 needs to be deified anyway-Victor sure seems to get uncomfortable when people do that to him . They're both talented young ladies who presented the world with some really great music. Esperanza's amazing because she's done it the hard way.
It almost begs another thread-"musicians who have supplemented their careers with family money". Mike Stern's family owns/owned the Sterns Department Store chain if I recall correctly. Henry Kaiser is an heir to Kaiser Aluminum. I'm wondering how many other players have started their careers on family subsidies. Hint-not me!

 

[JimmyM]

well i've long had a theory that the only way to get into the bigtime music business is to buy your way into it or know someone who's buying their way into it. i know it's not true in ever case but it sure seems like it.

 

[Phil Smith]

Wayne's hand is writ large of Tal's recording, she's using Keith Carlock and Wayne so I don't think there's any way of avoiding that.

One's artisitic vision shouldn't morph into someone elses artistic vision if in fact it's their vision.

Esperanza's a wonderful young talent, they both are. You could look at either of them and the attention from the Trades and Stars (Esperanza's played with all sort of luminaries on record such as Stanley Clarke and even played the Nobel Awards Ceremony for President Obama) and say they are both over-hyped. I don't think so, I think they're both really good at what they do.

On the contrary I don't think Esperanza is over-hyped at all.

The greatest thing since sliced bread? I'm afraid I have to go to Chick Corea, Herbie Hancock or John McLaughlin for that....

Roy, the sliced bread comment is about the CD.