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Tale of two drummers...decisions - LONG

#21
I appreciate the responses. I wasn't necessarily looking for advice or validation. This forum, and this thread is really just a sounding board I needed to vent and gain some clarity on a decision that needs to be made at some point.

So I appreciate all of you offering up your thoughts. Everything will work out, I am cinfident of that. This is too god of a thing going for it not to. It takes work for sure. But anything can happen. Drummer A could find a job, Drummer B could take a different gig. An entirely different drummer could fall into our laps.

We'll just have to see how this plays out.

Thanks everyone.
 
#22
buldog5151bass said:
It is good that you stick by your friends. Things can change, and for his sake, I hope they do. If and when that does happen, hopefully he will have opportunities, either with you or someone else. But right now he is not in a position to do what you need. You have to be fair to everyone.
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Thank you for that. That was my intent all along when I came out and just asked him point blank..."I know you want to do this, but realisitically, can you?"

His response wasn't anywhere near what I thought it would be. Actually it kind of took me by surprise. Two years ago he took off on tour with a blues band all over the country and I wished him luck, even though it left my band at the time without a drummer. Once that was over and he came back home, he seemed to be a different person.
 
#23
I'd go with drummer "A" especially if he has the passion and creativity. The other thing to consider would to also have a back up drummer/roadie guy for the gigs. This way, drummer "A" knows that if he flakes, there's another guy ready to take his place.
 
#24
Bassconbeatz said:
I'd go with drummer "A" especially if he has the passion and creativity. The other thing to consider would to also have a back up drummer/roadie guy for the gigs. This way, drummer "A" knows that if he flakes, there's another guy ready to take his place.
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Well, after talking with Drummer B last night he did say he'd learn all the tunes either way because he really loves the music, so worse case he'd be willing to be the backup if needed.

Now it's just a matter of Thursday night's rehearsal where we will all be together and can all talk face to face. Provided Drummer A makes it. ;)
 
#25
Well, it appears the situation has worked itself out.

Drummer A has found a part time job for now. He was very apologetic for missing rehearsals and seems to have re-committed himself to the band.

Knowing him as I do, I'm sure the joblessness was really dragging him down to the point of feeling hopeless about everything.

I guess we shall see. But at the very least a backup plan is in place. Thanks again everyone. Just being able to talk it out helped me get through a difficult week with my band.
 
#27
Oh goodness, this really is a no-brainer! :rollno:

Your friend (Drummer A) is a complete slacker. As you've stated, he's irresponsible, unmotivated, has no equipment, no job, no car while being 30 miles away, and possible substance abuse problems. I don't care how creative he is, this is a train wreck in the making! He should focus on his wife, kid, and getting a job, and should forget about music for now, until he's got his life together.

Drummer B has none of the above issues, and he's a very capable player. Pretty simple really.
 
#28
spz8 said:
Oh goodness, this really is a no-brainer! :rollno:

Your friend (Drummer A) is a complete slacker. As you've stated, he's irresponsible, unmotivated, has no equipment, no job, no car while being 30 miles away, and possible substance abuse problems. I don't care how creative he is, this is a train wreck in the making! He should focus on his wife, kid, and getting a job, and should forget about music for now, until he's got his life together.

Drummer B has none of the above issues, and he's a very capable player. Pretty simple really.
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Nothing is ever as simple as it appears. Life isn't black and white. Most of it is shades of grey that we find difficult sorting out.

The thing about Drummer A is he devotes his life to music. I mean he is a real musician in the truest sense of the word and plays drums in a very creative musical way, unlike any other drummer I've ever played with. Aside from all his other issues, the guy just treats playing music like nothing else matters. He's not cut out for the "real world". He is not unlike many other artists who suffer for their passion and struggle to find balance between what they're meant to do and what others expectations are.

What makes him a fabulous musician on drums just also happens to drive the rest of us crazy.
 
#30
I can relate, I had a drummer A myself. He was an amazing, natural talent. Unfortunately, that was his only redeeming quality. Aside from drumming, he was a totally worthless individual. No job, no car, substance abuse issues, personality disorders. He was amazing for the hour on stage each night, but the other 23 hours were a PITA. We made the best of it for a while, but the toll it took on everyone else was not worth it in the long run. Found a drummer B, and life has been golden ever since. Just my personal experience, YMMV.
 
#31
spz8 said:
Take this to heart, as the "real world" is where your band will find success, or not.
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I spent my whole life being an artist, writer and musician not cut out for the "real world" and to this day still struggle with "fitting in". But I am very successful now. Due in large part by having people around me who were/are very supportive and encouraging of my pursuits.

So while we struggle with the issue, I am very sympathetic to what he's going through. Doesn't make it easier, but I understand.
 
#32
dmac1961 said:
I can relate, I had a drummer A myself. He was an amazing, natural talent. Unfortunately, that was his only redeeming quality. Aside from drumming, he was a totally worthless individual. No job, no car, substance abuse issues, personality disorders. He was amazing for the hour on stage each night, but the other 23 hours were a PITA. We made the best of it for a while, but the toll it took on everyone else was not worth it in the long run. Found a drummer B, and life has been golden ever since. Just my personal experience, YMMV.
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I've played with him in three other bands over the years and he's always been there and accountable, even if a tad difficult at times. This is the worse I've ever seen him be.

So I guess we will see if he can land on his feet.
 
#33
I can't say anything useful from here, it all depends on the details. Picking the least worst drummer is always tricky. Reliable mediocrity is not objectively better than unreliable greatness. I've settled that way a couple of times and it can be as bad as anything.

So long as those remain the only options I might just give up on playing gigs with that band and record with the better drummer.
 
#38
Sundogue said:
We have gigs lined up. We have an entire summer's worth of gigs, a marketing plan, a business plan, etc.

This ain't no garage band. As someone mentioned, musicians (especially the truly creative ones) have issues due to their wacky nature and outlook on life. Keith Moon, John Bonham...hey Drummer A falls into that sublimely creative force category that trips my musically creative trigger. Reliability issues notwithstanding.

And really, life itself is about taking chances, taking risks for greater rewards. That doesn't always pay off, but if it does it usually pays off in spades (I know this from my own personal experience). However playing it safe, while it's more reassuring, sometimes doesn't do much more than maintain the status quo.

Ultimately it isn't my responsibility anyway. Things will happen as they need to. I can nudge things in a certain direction, but life will play itself out either way.
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use 'em both....two drummers,and/or one or the other alternating on percussion,no problems having to find subs....
 
#40
ChrisB2 said:
Oops, missed that. I scrolled up several of your posts to see what happened... but not quite far enough.

Well, good for him, maybe he's getting squared away.

I'm glad my pessimism proved wrong.

Good luck! :D
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Thanks. You know part of the reason this was a difficult thing for me is that he is a friend. I'm also the type of person who is understanding, sympathetic (or empathetic) and truly believe we are far too judgemental about the way people live their lives.

Doesn't mean I'm willing to accept just any behavior from others or not address problems that affect my own life, but I try to see the good in others. We ALL have our own issues that trip other people's triggers in negative ways.

And I know this past year or so has been really hard on him. Just giving up on him when he already felt like most everyone else in his life had, wouldn't have been the right thing for a friend to do.

Still, I do have some responsibility to myself, my family and the band too. So it's a balancing act. For those who felt this was easily a cut and dried decision to make and saw only the "business" aspect of this, don't understand where I am coming from.

I'm all for working hard and making wise decisions in order to make the band successful as a business venture. But I will never compromise my principles, morals or values in pursuit of it either.

But my friend does need to shoulder his own share of the responsibility for being in this band and I can't tank this project out of friendship. I can however give him the opportunity to make it work for him and us. If he can't, it's not for a lack of me trying.
 

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