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talent of popular bands

J

jaaboy

Dec 7, 2006
33
0
#1
me and my guitarist were watching some on demand yesterday and we started watching this GWAR video. And i like some of gwars stuff and so does he and i remarked to my guitarist, "Wow, were so much better than these guys musically, were more physically proficent with our instruments and we probably know a hell of a lot more theory." Im not trying to show off here i was just commenting on how there probly making millions while we practice our butts off everyday and we got $22 last time we played show.
My guitarist who knows a ton of theory and is very musically intelligent said i was wrong. He argued that if they can write the stuff, then they can probably play extremely well, there music just doesnt call for crazy stuff. He also brought up James Hepfeild from Metallica as an example.
And i looked up at Gwars bassist using a pick churning out the root and i really didnt know what to think.

Now this is entirly possible that the Gwar bassist can go home after the gig and do an arrpegio sweep all the way up the the 22nd fret and back, but im still a little hesitant to believe that they are all actually virtuousos.
Opinions?
 
#2
I think many popular bands have very mediocre players (Sid Vicious?). Most popular music is quite simple, the talent is in the songwriting (often non even band members), making it catchy for maximum appeal. There are always exceptions (Dave Matthews Band).

This reminded me, looked at the Rolling Stone magazine list of top guitar players, Kurt Cobain was like #10 or something, Eddie Van Halen was around #75...huh...Kurt Cobain was a poopy guitar player, maybe he could write a good song but he was no EVH.

Just more reason I write off anything published by Rolling Stone magazine.

Later
Rob
 
#4
jaaboy said:
me and my guitarist were watching some on demand yesterday and we started watching this GWAR video. And i like some of gwars stuff and so does he and i remarked to my guitarist, "Wow, were so much better than these guys musically, were more physically proficent with our instruments and we probably know a hell of a lot more theory." Im not trying to show off here i was just commenting on how there probly making millions while we practice our butts off everyday and we got $22 last time we played show.
My guitarist who knows a ton of theory and is very musically intelligent said i was wrong. He argued that if they can write the stuff, then they can probably play extremely well, there music just doesnt call for crazy stuff. He also brought up James Hepfeild from Metallica as an example.
And i looked up at Gwars bassist using a pick churning out the root and i really didnt know what to think.

Now this is entirly possible that the Gwar bassist can go home after the gig and do an arrpegio sweep all the way up the the 22nd fret and back, but im still a little hesitant to believe that they are all actually virtuousos.
Opinions?
Click to expand...
I totally agree. I don't understand why BP keeps doing articles on bassists that are in bands like The Fray, and all the do is play the root. Anyone could play that gig. They are just lucky that they got in with that successful band. We don't need to hear what their take on balancing rhythm vs melody in the bass part. :rolleyes:
 
#7
Talent alone is a very small part of the equation. Talent plus hard work will buy you skill. Skill allows you to work with other people to make a product which can be packaged, marketed and sold.

Selling yourself is IMO the hardest part for originals bands because the competition is so high and it's always a buyer's market. It usually takes time, a lot of hard work and a ridiculous amount of determination to establish yourself as someone who can be relied on to sell enough albums, concert tickets, band shirts etc.

Of course, bands generally don't say that in interviews - admitting that business and marketing are important would be terrible marketing and bad for business... And some of them may not really understand how or why their success came about or they might prefer to delude themselves that it's 100% musical skill that got them where they are.
 
#8
jaaboy said:
me and my guitarist were watching some on demand yesterday and we started watching this GWAR video. And i like some of gwars stuff and so does he and i remarked to my guitarist, "Wow, were so much better than these guys musically, were more physically proficent with our instruments and we probably know a hell of a lot more theory." Im not trying to show off here i was just commenting on how there probly making millions while we practice our butts off everyday and we got $22 last time we played show.
My guitarist who knows a ton of theory and is very musically intelligent said i was wrong. He argued that if they can write the stuff, then they can probably play extremely well, there music just doesnt call for crazy stuff. He also brought up James Hepfeild from Metallica as an example.
And i looked up at Gwars bassist using a pick churning out the root and i really didnt know what to think.

Now this is entirly possible that the Gwar bassist can go home after the gig and do an arrpegio sweep all the way up the the 22nd fret and back, but im still a little hesitant to believe that they are all actually virtuousos.
Opinions?
Click to expand...

Who cares? The important bit is highlighted.
 
#9
Really ..who cares but i will go into this is funny. Do you think most people who go listen to or buy popular music give one care how hard a song is to be played? NO...do you think they care that you are holding a bass and playing thru equipment that costs almost as much as a basic car...Nope. Do you think they care if Vertigo was 3 chords or a master piece that Bach would scratch his head at...again..No.

Its called the real world and sometimes alot of us cloud and confuse it here on this and many other player boards. Joe and Jill adverage doesnt care... if it sounds good it is good. If you could bang out great 4 chord rock thru an old amp and an $100.00 SX bass and make millions would you? I would...nobody would care that it wasn't a Wall or Zon thru an $8000.00 cab and head or that i didnt know crap about modes or what a circle of fifths were...they just dig the music.

Fieldy gets alot of crap on here like the GWAR bassist very simple but it plays well in the music...its the music people want not the bassist or guitarist...thats what other MUSICIANS want..gear if they are theory trained or a top player..this makes me laugh ...you think Feildy or Adam Clayton or Edge care who thinks their music is simple...no...they laugh all the way to the bank. You and many others would throw away your theory and pick up a pick and thump roots or slap the bass like a monkey on speed if one of those bands called you up and said..hey wanna replace him?

Its time to get over what it takes to make it in music...LUCK and being in the right place at the right time...the Rolling Stones are the loosest band in the world and are also one of the most famious and richest...ever here the Stones play the same song the same way live more than once...i havn't :rolleyes: Continue to practice and dream...but dont over look what it takes...talent is not first or your speed tapping or playing those sweeping runs over your bass...tell me what bassist would you rather be...Victor Wooten...or Adam Clayton...if i got my point across its a no brainer who i would be.
 
#10
Fact:rock music(bar neo-classical, progressive etc.) has a huge emphasis on image, and many of the audience are non-musicians and they just wanna be entertained, not see you do scale runs at 300bpm

if you have the chops, good. But its no use if you cant write a simple catchy song and put up a great show. GWAR has this alien/monster gimmick and people buy it.

Im sure there are many people on this forum that are better than say Nikki sixx and duff mckagan in terms of technical abilities but theyre not rockstar material if you get what i mean...
 
#11
Talent is all relative. A "good" bassist (or guitarist, or drummer etc) plays what the song calls for, nothing more or less. What he/she plays becomes part of that band's sound, style and vibe.

A lot of people define "talent" by the amount of notes that are played, or by the speed at which they are played but it's not all about just that. It's also about being able to master the tone of your instrument to mix it most effectively into the song, it's about dymanics - knowing when to dig into the note at max volume, or knowing when to soften the note to just enhance a particular passage or part, it's knowing when NOT to play, it's knowing when to slide or glide. There's a lot to it. Of course this is all just my personal opinion others opinions may vary but because of this I consider Adam Clayton for example to be a good bassist - as good as Chris Squire but far different in style and taste.

But yeah, there are also those that do thoroughly suck and are where they're at soley on image, dont get me wrong..
 
#12
I define "talent" as the ability to acquire the same amount of skill with less effort than most people. Not sure if that's a correct definition but that's what I go by. "Skill" is a very broad term and certainly not limited to the ability to play lots of notes really fast - actually, that skill is pretty useless in most music.
 
#14
BrandonBass said:
Fact:rock music(bar neo-classical, progressive etc.) has a huge emphasis on image, and many of the audience are non-musicians and they just wanna be entertained, not see you do scale runs at 300bpm
Click to expand...
I am a "musician" and I do not want to see scale runs at 300bpm. Bands like Dream Theater bore me. In rock music, it's all about the song. Everything else isn't even close. God bless bands like the Ramones.

BTW, I have always wanted to see GWAR, but never have. Now that I was about to see them, the company schedules the Xmas party on the same night. Argh.

Did Sid Vicious even play a note with the Sex Pistols, or was he just a prop on stage?
 
#15
Lefty Geek said:
I am a "musician" and I do not want to see scale runs at 300bpm. Bands like Dream Theater bore me. In rock music, it's all about the song. Everything else isn't even close. God bless bands like the Ramones.

BTW, I have always wanted to see GWAR, but never have. Now that I was about to see them, the company schedules the Xmas party on the same night. Argh.

Did Sid Vicious even play a note with the Sex Pistols, or was he just a prop on stage?
Click to expand...

Sometimes the rest of the band would unplug Sid's bass because he was too far wasted to play anything close to the song. It was messing up everyone else!!!

I've seen GWAR 4 times. awesome every time. Great SHOW. who cares about how musically talented it was...I was entertained for 2 hours!

Amen, on the Dream Theater bores me.

It's all about the song and feel
 
#16
The hard fact is that most pop music fans like simple songs that have a catchy hook. They dont like stuff that is technically superior or has a bunch of theory behind it. Its sad . I care more for jazz likes miles davis and herbie hancock but I also listen to alot of Hendrix. I do see a cool singer/songwriter every now and then on tv and their music sounds fun to play , like Trey Anastacio . His bassist grooves the whole time .
 

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