A standard personnel grounding strap has a resistor in it to minimize the risk of (it having anything to do with) a dangerous shock.
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Tapewounds causing electrical hum
- Thread starter tkozal
- Start date
A standard personnel grounding strap has a resistor in it to minimize the risk of (it having anything to do with) a dangerous shock.
This should get some sort of award for most inventive use of a product for which it was not intended.Sadowsky said:
As I'm sure you know, it happened to a Scottish guitarist named Les Harvey. The PA supposedly had a reversed hot/neutral, so the microphone was grounded "hot". He grabbed it with one hand, and suddenly Mr. Harvey became the best path to ground, via his guitar strings. No more Mr. Harvey.
It is rare, I agree. Most other musicians have been electrocuted the old-fashioned way, not via guitar. Like Claude "Clo Clo" Francois for example, who was taking a bath one afternoon (sadly before the advent of the GFCI), when he noticed that the light bulb above his bathtub was out. He reached up to replace it, and ... no more Mr. Francois.
Anyway, the electrocution subject is a rat-hole. I'm sorry I mentioned it...
You could add a resistor to your bridge ground too. I'm not sure how big the resistor could be before it negates the effects of the bridge ground. It has to be pretty big to protect you from electrocution but it is worth a try. The antistatic wrist straps that are used to protect sensitive electronics during assembly and repair work fine with large value resistors -- for their intended purpose, maybe not for noise suppression. Anyway tapewounds and coated strings are desirable for many reasons. Telling musicians they can't use them is like telling them they can't drink beer! I think it is better to find some way to keep yourself grounded if your insulated strings give you noise on a well shielded bass. If you own a Fender then you need to consider doing a proper shield job on it eventually though.
Ken
DiabolusInMusic
Functionless Art is Merely Tolerated Vandalism
Ok, maybe something needs to cleared up. I never intended to mean shielding will make the bass 100% noiseless, as it won't. It will however make the noise so minimal you couldn't possibly hear unless your amp is absolutely cranked and nobody else is playing. At that point, you could just be getting noise from the amp's line power. It will certainly remove the hum that comes and goes when you touch the metal strings.
I would attach the player end to a metal c**k ring to maintain constant contact.
Roger
Thank goodness the risk of electrocution is small, because...YEOWW!
OP here. I solved my problem by taking off the LaBella tapes and putting on a set of Daddario Chromes. All is right in my little world right now. Thanks for all of the comments.
I absolutely love my tapewounds, but I'm having this issue as well. Was trying to think of ways to create a ground for the bass.
It's pretty nicely shielded, all of the ground wires are where they're supposed to be. This damn hum, which isn't very loud and completely unnoticeable when playing with other instruments or along with a cd, is still driving me crazy. I thought about taping a small metal object to the bridge but I somehow doubt that's going to work.
I may just have to get a grounding bracelet from Wally World and really feel the power of my bass.
It's pretty nicely shielded, all of the ground wires are where they're supposed to be. This damn hum, which isn't very loud and completely unnoticeable when playing with other instruments or along with a cd, is still driving me crazy. I thought about taping a small metal object to the bridge but I somehow doubt that's going to work.
I may just have to get a grounding bracelet from Wally World and really feel the power of my bass.
I just posted this to a different forum on coated strings and hum, so I thought I would add it here as well.
I am constantly amazed at how people are stuck in their belief systems (alternative facts) here. Here are the facts based on 45 years experience with the issue:
1) the string does not act as an antenna to attract noise, it not does the string cause hum in any way.
2) The string connects the players hand to the parts of the guitar that are connected to ground (bridge, output jack, control plate).
3) Contrary to what EMG recommends, I have always had to shield and install bridge ground wires for hum control for musicians playing in noisy environments, especially stage lighting (vari-lights) and old building wiring.
4) The risk of shock with having a bridge ground is so low, in it a non issue. If it happens, it is in when the player has his hands on the strings and simultaneously touches a powered microphone with his lips or hands. Dealing with pros for 45 years, I can tell you it is a non issue.
5) For those who say I never get hum, it is only because you have not had to play in environments that produce it.
6) Shielding can reduce the hum by 90% but a string ground in still needed in noisy environments.
7) Shielding and proper grounding cannot eliminate 60 cycle (single coil) hum.
8) The single most important part of the equation regarding shunting "noise" to ground is the human body. When you touch the strings, your body completes the ground and shunts the hum. This would also happen if you touched the bridge, the control plate or the output jack.
9) Given #8, in order for you to complete the ground while touching the string, the string MUST be electrically conductive, otherwise, no connection is made the the string ground via the bridge.
10) Most coated strings are NON Conductive, defeating the connection to the bridge ground. As a result, there is no hum reduction when touching the strings.
I am constantly amazed at how people are stuck in their belief systems (alternative facts) here. Here are the facts based on 45 years experience with the issue:
1) the string does not act as an antenna to attract noise, it not does the string cause hum in any way.
2) The string connects the players hand to the parts of the guitar that are connected to ground (bridge, output jack, control plate).
3) Contrary to what EMG recommends, I have always had to shield and install bridge ground wires for hum control for musicians playing in noisy environments, especially stage lighting (vari-lights) and old building wiring.
4) The risk of shock with having a bridge ground is so low, in it a non issue. If it happens, it is in when the player has his hands on the strings and simultaneously touches a powered microphone with his lips or hands. Dealing with pros for 45 years, I can tell you it is a non issue.
5) For those who say I never get hum, it is only because you have not had to play in environments that produce it.
6) Shielding can reduce the hum by 90% but a string ground in still needed in noisy environments.
7) Shielding and proper grounding cannot eliminate 60 cycle (single coil) hum.
8) The single most important part of the equation regarding shunting "noise" to ground is the human body. When you touch the strings, your body completes the ground and shunts the hum. This would also happen if you touched the bridge, the control plate or the output jack.
9) Given #8, in order for you to complete the ground while touching the string, the string MUST be electrically conductive, otherwise, no connection is made the the string ground via the bridge.
10) Most coated strings are NON Conductive, defeating the connection to the bridge ground. As a result, there is no hum reduction when touching the strings.
I could fix it. I've made several previously noisy Fenders dead quiet. Using a combination of StewMac "Shielding Paint" (conductive of course) and StewMac copper shielding foil tape, it all stops.. forever. As far as the 'tape wounds' go, you have to consider making electrical contact with the metallic bridge saddle with the underside of the individual offending string. May I suggest scrapping just a bit of the non-conductive coating away for that very purpose? And in extreme cases, the underside of the pickguard needs to be covered with a thin sheet of copper foil, or 'on-the-cheap' like I did with inexpensive aluminum foil kept in place by 3M adhesive spray. The foil of course will need to be physically(electrically) touching the rest of the cavity to complete your new EMF-busting "Faraday Cage".
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Hey there, i had noise problems after changing to tapewounds.
I found this topic and was not sure if shielding would help. I read all the topic and undertood that shielding would probably help but maybe not completly eliminate the noise.
In my case i got more noise when playing at home sitting next to the computer. On the stage or in the reharsal and didn't have much noise.
After a good shielding I can say that I don't ear any noise near the computer... so shielding solved my problem.
I understand that using non coated strings would be even better but... i really fell in love with tapewounds.
I found this topic and was not sure if shielding would help. I read all the topic and undertood that shielding would probably help but maybe not completly eliminate the noise.
In my case i got more noise when playing at home sitting next to the computer. On the stage or in the reharsal and didn't have much noise.
After a good shielding I can say that I don't ear any noise near the computer... so shielding solved my problem.
I understand that using non coated strings would be even better but... i really fell in love with tapewounds.
Hello bassfriends,
I have the same issue on a blazer p-bass by Ibanez : with LaBella tapewounds it annoyingly hums unless I touch the bridge or tuning keys or jack ground.
I shielded everything with paint & adhesive copper foil but it doesn't help.
So much for shielding mr know evreything fans...
I will now try scraping off some of the nylon coat where it contacts to bridge and tuning pegs, see if it fixes the problem.
I'm not reading all six pages, so if I repeat something, thank you. You DO have a grounding issue: the nylon tape is a great insulator, so that your fingers never touch the metal to get the ground silenced. I played nylon tapes for many years, and will again if a gig comes up that I need them.
I have tried everything probably mentioned in this thread over the decades, starting with my first set in 1978. Only two solutions absolutely cured the issue using nylon tapewound strings:
1) Use a pickup with a grounded metal cover so that when you anchor your thumb you kill the noise;
2) Use EMG active pickups, which are not bridge grounded, and don't have the noise issue to begin with.
Everything else mentioned will help, but not completely cure the grounding noise issue. Gibson had this same issue with 1st year Les Pauls in 1953: the bridge was not grounded. The P-90's hummed. The issue was solved when the bridge was grounded.
I have tried everything probably mentioned in this thread over the decades, starting with my first set in 1978. Only two solutions absolutely cured the issue using nylon tapewound strings:
1) Use a pickup with a grounded metal cover so that when you anchor your thumb you kill the noise;
2) Use EMG active pickups, which are not bridge grounded, and don't have the noise issue to begin with.
Everything else mentioned will help, but not completely cure the grounding noise issue. Gibson had this same issue with 1st year Les Pauls in 1953: the bridge was not grounded. The P-90's hummed. The issue was solved when the bridge was grounded.
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This is why I like EMG active pickups: no bridge grounding, so this issue is obviated.
Even EMG's need a bridge ground under difficult conditions like stage lighting and funky old wiring in recording studios. Believe me, I have been addressing this issue for over 40 years with working pro musicians. Even with a well-shielded instrument, tape wounds and heavily coated strings fail to reduce extraneous hum as there is no human connection to ground.
I will wager your shielding is not as good as it needs to be. Have you shielded your pickup routs and connected them to ground? If you take a resistance meter and zero it out, attach one lead to the ground at the output jack. Then touch the other lead to the bridge, metal control plate, shielding in neck pickup cavity, shielding in bridge pickup cavity, control cavity in various locations. Everything should read ZERO (or very close to zero) on the meter. If it does not do that, you have not constructed a true "Faraday Cage". Re-shield the areas that do not read zero and make sure the shielding is connected to ground.
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Shielding does not get rid of single coil (60 cycle) hum. The bridge ground and the P-90 hum are separate issues.
Not really. They both have to do with nothing incorporating the bridge ground so that the proper circuit is complete in conventionally wired passive instruments. With tapewounds, it is the strings themselves decoupling the bridge ground, and with the first Les Pauls, it was simply not wiring the bridge ground.
Now, everybody is going to take their pot shots at my comments. I don't give a F_____ F___. I speak from over 45 years of playing experience and the training on how to manage my equipment from both a rural electric company vice president and from a line foreman supervisor of another city utilities company about how to work with these issues. I am telling what works. If you argue with me, you are arguing with two gentlemen who have over a century of combined professional experience with wiring. So take your shots. I am not going to respond any further. I have said my piece, and this is what works in the real world.
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