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Tapping help...

#41
friendlybass said:
And if you want to compromise half rounds or the labella quarter rounds are a good compromise, but with the higher tension of flats (less material=higher tension to achieve desires pitch, I wont bore you with the math) and the lack of harmonic content (again, not gonna bore ya) you wont really achieve that really clear tap sound. I keep a bass with flats at all times for that sound and then have another bass set for the fancier stuff
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Yeah That is Actually my exact plan in the future. I get into the statistics of this stuff too, I'd like to look over the math if possible.
 
#42
Now that I know that you're playing on flats, that right there's part of the problem. Flats often have high tension, and because of that can be difficult to tap on, especially if you're playing in E standard, though not impossible. Flats also tend to be more stiff than a regular round or pressure wound string. all of which can effect your tone.
 
#43
raventepes said:
Now that I know that you're playing on flats, that right there's part of the problem. Flats often have high tension, and because of that can be difficult to tap on, especially if you're playing in E standard, though not impossible. Flats also tend to be more stiff than a regular round or pressure wound string. all of which can effect your tone.
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That's what I've been told, but With as much as a gig on that bass and the style we play, flats are the best fit, I plan on getting a nice new six string that I'll fit with some good roundwounds. Any recommendations? I know what flats I like the sound and feel of, but that's cause flats have been my go to for years
 
#44
I Need a six... said:
Yeah That is Actually my exact plan in the future. I get into the statistics of this stuff too, I'd like to look over the math if possible.
Click to expand...
I Need a six... said:
Yeah That is Actually my exact plan in the future. I get into the statistics of this stuff too, I'd like to look over the math if possible.
Click to expand...
Yeah so the equation for the fundamental frequency is f=1/2Lroot(T/µ), where F is the fundamental frequency, L is the length of the string, T is the tensional force, and µ is the mass per unit of distance, in the imperial system lb/ft or metric kg/m. This is derived from a couple things, but basically it says that if you increase the length of the string, pitch goes down, if you increase tension, pitch increases,and if you increase the mass per unit pitch will go up. Look up marssene's laws if I'm unclear.
String makers use these relations to get you the feel you want out of strings. A low guage string means low mass per unit (µ) which raises pitch, so to get the desired frequency they decrease the tension. Length (L) on a bass guitar is constant, that's your scale! Conversely a high guage string, or a string with a lot of mass like a flatwound string, will a higher tension. Tension (T) and mass per unit (µ) are inversely related.
The reason we perceive flats as thumpy and new rounds as bright is the difference in overtones. When a string vibrates it behaves like a weight suspended on 2 springs, it oscillates at a specific frequency when agitated (in our case by fingers, pick, slap, etc.) and the only way to affect that frequency is via the length of the springs, the mass of the weight, or the stiffness of the springs. Now a spring-weight system with just one weight would produce 1 pure tone with little to no overtones, and a system with 2 weights would 1 overtone, 3 weights 2 overtones, and so on and so forth, but an instrument spring behaves like an infinite number weights oscillating at the same time, producing mostly the fundamental but also every harmonic of that fundamental. The volume of those harmonics is our perceived scale of bright (more harmonics sounding with the fundamental) to mellow (less harmonics). A roundwound string produces more harmonic content because the winding adds a lot of masses to our system, and a flatwound string doesn't add all that many comparably. Thus the difference in sound.
Hope that helps, little more physics than statistics.
In other news I think Sweetwater is having a sale on most of the light gauge roundwounds, might want to get some to try out!
 
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#45
As someone who does a good amount of tapping, switching from passive P bass to active preamp/passive pickups and active/active guitars didn't seem to be as big a deal as I thought it was going to be. I imagined that tapping would be so much easier, and it is to a point. Active electronics do help, but the change might not be as dramatic as you might think.

As pointed out already, your tone issues might be due to finger strength and just practice. There are some things I play (Myung's bass solo in Metropolis Part I) that I was using my pinkie on my noting hand to try and hammer on one of the 16th notes and in watching Myung play it he uses his ring finger rather than his pinkie, and once I picked that up, the note came out much clearer as ring fingers are stronger than pinkies, and even though it is far more difficult a reach with my ring finger, the clarity is worth it. So finger strength has a LOT to do with how well the notes are voiced and how strongly they come through - more than active/passive or even a compressor.

Also, what gauge strings are you using? Lighter gauge is obviously easier to tap with but you might lose a bit in punch and depth (I use mediums). I also use a compressor (Markbass Compressore) which can help things out, too.

My .02
 
#46
I Need a six... said:
Understandable... But the real reason I want a six string, is because I just love everything about them:) I've wanted a six for Way longer than I've had the desire to do tapping style. I saw PRIMUS in concert, and I had never really paid attention to the extended range basses before. I left that show obsessed
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Then by all means go for it! after 3 months I've almost totally adjusted and my jazz is sitting in the corner unused for the most part, the transition wasn't awful at all.
 
#47
Nic. said:
You probably don't mean it this way but I'd just wanna say that it really depends on your tapping style. Since the string-to-string interval is the same across the board, I find it particularly easy with the 6 to just pick any note and tap the same chord shapes across when doing legato arpeggio-ish stuff - not having to move my hands makes it easier to control. I guess as long as you're used to having more strings, it's no problem, but otherwise I wouldn't say it's any different from playing anything else... I mean, there are people who can't get used to a low B, but that doesn't mean that a 4 string is easier to tap than a 5.

I meant it more in a "getting a 6 won't solve your problems and it'll take a couple months to adjust, making it harder to start with" kind of way.
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#48
I think some instruments are just better suited for tapping than others. There's a number of things from the setup to the type of frets to how resonant the bass is that make tapping on different basses different. For example of all the basses I've owned the easiest to tap on and get a nice tapping tone was the Conklin gt7. It had active pickups (not passive pickups with active eq like most basses) and the bass has unusually small frets and a very stable neck with a really flat fingerboard and I was able to get the action much lower than other basses without sounding like buzz lightyear and Ill also say tapping in lighter gauge strings like d, g, high C and high F strings is easier than tapping the b e and a strings. So don't watch someone on YouTube tapping a piccolo bass and think tapping a standard tuned bass will be as easy

I've had some great basses that were absolutely horrible for tapping right off the bat. For example my thumb nt5 absolutely needed a mute on the neck. But a wrist band or soft pony tail thingy is often a cheap fix.

For my stingray All it really took was a proper setup and getting used to tapping on the curved fingerboard again. I'll probably use a mute on the neck when recording but it sounds pretty good without one.

I do think a lot of the tone when tapping is in the hands though. When I first started tapping it sounded terrible no matter what i was playing.
 
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#49
A p is fine for tapping, I do it all the time. Try lighter gauge strings and lower action. If its a volume issue, turn your amp up and your bass down so you can turn up your volume for when you do tap.
 
#50
I Need a six... said:
That's what I've been told, but With as much as a gig on that bass and the style we play, flats are the best fit, I plan on getting a nice new six string that I'll fit with some good roundwounds. Any recommendations? I know what flats I like the sound and feel of, but that's cause flats have been my go to for years
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That depends on how much you're willing to spend, which can be an entirely different thread.
 
#52
BassFishingInAmerica said:
I don't think anyone is better at tapping than Victor Wooten. And he generally uses a fairly clean tone with no overdrive.
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Right, but he uses light guage strings with very low action on a bass with a very comfortable flat fingerboard...and there's plenty of treble coming from his rig, which no doubt is set with plenty of headroom for lots of dynamic range.
 
#53
I Need a six... said:
Right on. I've been practicing ALL of the style's (except for with a pick, had a small phase with that but it passed) for as long as ive played(10 years) all the bassist in my area(older, better bassists that is) have suggested active electronics as spin doc did. Too bad I bought a tuba recently($6899) and don't have the money for a nice active six string, not that that will solve ALL of my struggle, but that's my first move. Thanks for the input Mushro :)
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What did you buy? A Miraphone?
 
#58
BassFishingInAmerica said:
LoL ... No, I think I was just confused that you used the word, "but" when you started to describe Wooten's tapping.
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Cool. Obviously Wooten is an absolute master of ALL techniques. Another great bassist who does cool stuff with tapping is Stu Hamm. I recall seeing his instructional video from the late 80s...he was quite ahead of his time!

ps. in case someone has not ever heard this...Billy Sheehan's "NV4 3345" which I believe was recorded in '82 or '83. Ironically there's no distortion on his tone here.
 
#60
Smooth_bass88 said:
Cool. Obviously Wooten is an absolute master of ALL techniques. Another great bassist who does cool stuff with tapping is Stu Hamm. I recall seeing his instructional video from the late 80s...he was quite ahead of his time!

ps. in case someone has not ever heard this...Billy Sheehan's "NV4 3345" which I believe was recorded in '82 or '83. Ironically there's no distortion on his tone here.
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Damn! That's some good sh*t! I really like that tone! I wish he'd do a lot more unaltered tracks like this!
 
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