Tasing old ladies

[Cabazon]

If he was going to arrest her, he could have put her in hand cuffs. There was absolutely no reason to tase her. She wasn't physically resisting at all, and she was no threat to the officer.

 

[Steveaux]

If he was going to arrest her, he could have put her in hand cuffs. There was absolutely no reason to tase her. She wasn't physically resisting at all, and she was no threat to the officer.

First rule of Officer Survival: Until they are under your direct, physical control, every individual is a potential threat.

 

[XtreO]

It's either tasers, pepper spray, or a bullet. If you act like a jackass, your going to get one.

No. Just no.

Policemen where live don't carry guns, and I have yet to hear about a policeman tasing (they don't have tasers either afaik) or pepper spraying (I am unsure whether they carry pepper spray, but I've never seen it nor heard of it) anyone. They don't have any major trouble enforcing the law. There are of course special unites with firearms and various gases in their arsenal (directly translated "tear gas", I don't know if that tells you anything), but they are rarely employed. It can be done without using any of that. So don't give us bull about how it's got to be either one of those.

Why policemen here can enforce the law without using any of the three, I have no idea. That's too long a question for me to answer, but I guess it has something to do with respect and public perception of authority figures. And maybe also the fact that it is somehwhat hard to get a firearm here. Unless I am mistaken, policemen in the US tend to be very catious because of the 'high' chance of the suspect carrying a firearm.

On topic, tasing a 72 year old woman, whom the policeman could have handcuffed with no further problem is preposterous. I believe in equality in the eyes of the law, and I think she should have been taken to the station for some sort of contempt, but tasing her. Wow. Talk about an extreme solution.

 

[Jared Lash]

I didn't get any pleasure from seeing the old lady getting tasered. I saw nothing that I consider extremely horrific.

Old lady should have coorperated more. She was endangering herself and the policeman by reacting so frantic next to a busy highway.

IMO, she asked for hard handling.
But I don't agree on police using tasers.

I don't get any entertainment or humor from the video either. I just thought it was worth discussing.

And her lack of cooperation is (at the least) good cause for why he initially shoves her. The majority of highway patrolmen killed while on duty (at least according to my police officer brother) are hit by cars while out on a traffic stop. Here's a video of a near escape. This lady wanted to try and argue right by the edge of the road like an idiot.

Do most people feel that tasers are useful law enforcement tools or should they be replced with somethig else? Is the issue the situation in which it was used or the age of the tazed? At what age should an officer not use a taser? Would you feel the tazing was justified if she were younger?

As with the quoted post above this seems to be a lot of people's opinion. Remember, several other non-lethal methods have been removed from an officers repertoire. The nightstick choke is now off limits for them, and many states have removed pepper spray as being non-effective and putting the officer's life in danger if they unsuccessfully attempt it against a much more dangerous suspect.

I'm not sure how I feel about tasers, but the question is what you would put in their hands instead.

I think mentioning the President is being unnecessarily political.


As for the woman getting tasered. I honestly feel there is a racial angle here. She is a 72 year old white woman, who is probably used to having cops defer to her. She thought getting roughed up was something cops did to Blacks and Mexicans, or really, really sassy white kids.

I think it would have be very hard to find a Black or Latino grandma who would have given a cop that much back talk because they would have known he would crack their heads if push came to shove. Needless to say any man, especially any man who is not white, would never have acted that way. At least not without expecting some rough treatment.

I remember riding in a fraternity brother's car while at Cal when he was pulled over. He's a Persian guy from orange county and is being really talking back to the CHP while his roommate (who is black and from Compton) and I (white but from Oak Park in Sacramento) are staring with our eyes wide. I'd say being wealthy is as much a part of this behavior as being white.

Also, it isn't just "sassy" white kids. Having never been someone that dressed outlandishly but having friends who did, I've seen this from both sides. White kids dressed up in "gangsta" attire or as punks or metalheads often get treated differently from the get go as well.

But in general, I agree with your point. Regardless of the actual rationale behind it, some people feel well within their rights to talk back, berate or try to push around cops in ways that most people wouldn't dream of. Did this lady deserve to be tased? I don't know. But she deserved some sort of punishment for her behavior.

 

[middlebit]

I wouldn't have tased her myself. But she seemed very eager to use her age as an excuse for, firstly, speeding, and then resisting arrest. She's doing the "72 year old woman" thing from the start. And let me guess, 7 years ago she probably used the "65-year old woman" line in similar situations. And before that? It's natural to get older - it doesn't make you a saint or a martyr. Drive sensibly and listen to what the officer's telling you, lady.

 

[AxtoOx]

I don't think color or class had anything to do w/ this one, I live in Oklahoma, my daughter lives in Texas. I'm all over Oklahoma and north Texas. They pull you over here for ANYTHING. I've gotten 3 warnings in 3 years because they Reilly didn't have a reason to pull me over. My dad is 76, same thing.
One thing I do believe to be true is if this was a 6'4" 300 lb. Biker. Nobody would be talking about it.
It's about tasing an irrational old lady.

Maybe he did take her age into consideration. What if she had Osteoporosis and he manhandled her. He could have broke some bones.

 

[Cabazon]

First rule of Officer Survival: Until they are under your direct, physical control, every individual is a potential threat.

Well, with that, every person who verbally expresses that they do not want to be arrested should be tased.

 

[Joe Gress]

Off course, in this case with the old lady, I'd suggest that the cop would overpower her, handcuff her, and let her spend several hours in jail in the police station for not cooperating with law enforcement.

Except for the fact that they were right by a busy freeway and the possibility of the conflict heading towards said freeway was increased because of the woman being dead set on getting back in her truck and taking off. Plus she would have had to been restrained by the cop who is much bigger than her, and he could have easily broken or bruised her. Which gives her leverage to sue.

I favor the use of bats by police toward hostile persons.
That's just fair straight-on restraining and defending. It might cause serious injuries but I don't consider that torture.
Tasers are just over the line of torture.

Bats eh? Broken bones, bruises, and cracked skulls? I really don't think that a quick jolt of voltage that stuns and put's you into a stiff state (what is that term?) is nearly as violent as a bat, baton, or stick to the body, head, or other areas. We also as a society here in america have moved to viewing bats and other solid hitting objects on cops as excessive violence.

Other than the fact that it would seriously injure you, why do you see tasers as torture?

Why policemen here can enforce the law without using any of the three, I have no idea. That's too long a question for me to answer, but I guess it has something to do with respect and public perception of authority figures. And maybe also the fact that it is somehwhat hard to get a firearm here. Unless I am mistaken, policemen in the US tend to be very cautious because of the 'high' chance of the suspect carrying a firearm.

America is a whole 'nother animal my friend. A lot of people here have a natural hate and distrust for policemen. (which is another story that would take a pretty nasty thread to explain) The chances of a person doing exactly what they are told when they are told to do it are slim and none, especially if said person is drunk, high, or belligerent otherwise. And if they have a gun, the situation is far more dangerous. Most policemen around here are trained to keep everyone as safe as possible. Unfortunately they have to move towards non-lethal instant stopping weapons to subdue and control these days.

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

I don't think color or class had anything to do w/ this one, I live in Oklahoma, my daughter lives in Texas. I'm all over Oklahoma and north Texas. They pull you over here for ANYTHING. I've gotten 3 warnings in 3 years because they Reilly didn't have a reason to pull me over. My dad is 76, same thing.
One thing I do believe to be true is if this was a 6'4" 300 lb. Biker. Nobody would be talking about it.
It's about tasing an irrational old lady.

Maybe he did take her age into consideration. What if she had Osteoporosis and he manhandled her. He could have broke some bones.

And having her fall to the ground is a great way to stop her from breaking anything

The colour/class thing (as far as I see) is nothing to do with the policeman, or why she was pulled over, but the woman's attitude after being approached. Going with her "untouchable" attitude. Not to mention the fact she was saying how everything was a lie and she had been a regular mary poppins (until she found out it was on video).

 

[Jared Lash]

Bats eh? Broken bones, bruises, and cracked skulls? I really don't think that a quick jolt of voltage that stuns and put's you into a stiff state (what is that term?) is nearly as violent as a bat baton, or stick to the body, head, or other areas.

THIS is the rationale for tasers. The idea is that they are less dangerous, especially in terms of long term damage, than having a baton used. Whether you agree with that or not is another story.

As for ethnicity - at least so far as the context that it has been discussed in THIS thread - is not about WHY the person is pulled over, but how they react to the police officers after the fact.

 

[two fingers]

My uncle was in law enforcement for 30 years. He only got injured once in his whole career. An 82 year old woman bit all the way through the "meat" of his hand between the thumb and index finger. Her teeth met in the middle. Don't hand me any crap about age. She was being wrestled into a patrol car by FIVE officers. Having grown up with him, and having been friends (band mates) with several police men, I've had tons of conversations about stuff like this. I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt, unless someone gets killed, or seriously injured. And while we're at it, if I had just been a WITNESS to that stupid woman in the video, I would have probably gotten MYSELF arrested for punching her lights out.

 

[Metal Mitch]

hmmm...

cop tasing old lady? not cool.

old lady tasing cop? way cool.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

And having her fall to the ground is a great way to stop her from breaking anything

The colour/class thing (as far as I see) is nothing to do with the policeman, or why she was pulled over, but the woman's attitude after being approached. Going with her "untouchable" attitude. Not to mention the fact she was saying how everything was a lie and she had been a regular mary poppins (until she found out it was on video).

+1, her attitude once she got pulled over, not the fact that she was pulled over was what I felt was affected by her race.

 

[AxtoOx]

+1, her attitude once she got pulled over, not the fact that she was pulled over was what I felt was affected by her race.

OK, I don't agree, but I know where your comming from now.
I think she was a scarlet naped female dog. ( can I say it like that?)

 

[mike_v_s]

hmmm...

cop tasing old lady? not cool.

old lady tasing cop? way cool.

Thanks for adding something to the thread. I was geting tired of the rational thoughts of people, too...

Mike

 

[Dr. Cheese]

I don't get any entertainment or humor from the video either. I just thought it was worth discussing.

And her lack of cooperation is (at the least) good cause for why he initially shoves her. The majority of highway patrolmen killed while on duty (at least according to my police officer brother) are hit by cars while out on a traffic stop. Here's a video of a near escape. This lady wanted to try and argue right by the edge of the road like an idiot.



As with the quoted post above this seems to be a lot of people's opinion. Remember, several other non-lethal methods have been removed from an officers repertoire. The nightstick choke is now off limits for them, and many states have removed pepper spray as being non-effective and putting the officer's life in danger if they unsuccessfully attempt it against a much more dangerous suspect.

I'm not sure how I feel about tasers, but the question is what you would put in their hands instead.



I remember riding in a fraternity brother's car while at Cal when he was pulled over. He's a Persian guy from orange county and is being really talking back to the CHP while his roommate (who is black and from Compton) and I (white but from Oak Park in Sacramento) are staring with our eyes wide. I'd say being wealthy is as much a part of this behavior as being white.

Also, it isn't just "sassy" white kids. Having never been someone that dressed outlandishly but having friends who did, I've seen this from both sides. White kids dressed up in "gangsta" attire or as punks or metalheads often get treated differently from the get go as well.

But in general, I agree with your point. Regardless of the actual rationale behind it, some people feel well within their rights to talk back, berate or try to push around cops in ways that most people wouldn't dream of. Did this lady deserve to be tased? I don't know. But she deserved some sort of punishment for her behavior.

Being rich can affect how a person acts, as well as being foreign. I think many visitors or new arrivals do not uderstand our police culture, and give cops lip or resistance that most native persons would not dare attempt.

 

[Steveaux]

Well, with that, every person who verbally expresses that they do not want to be arrested should be tased.

Not necessarily, but they still must be considered a potential threat.

 

[kanonfodr]

Dude, my mom emailed me about this story a few weeks ago.

I personally have no sympathy for the woman. Anybody with any common sense knows you do what the officer says, Yes/No, Sir answers, and you won't get dealt with. Period.

Peace,
Greg

 

[Steve]

Just goes to show you, age is no excuse for ignorance.

Being old doesn't entitle you to anything except 10% off at Denny's.

If a cop tells you to do something, right or wrong, you will ALWAYS come out way ahead if you just do it.

The clip is inflammatory as it gets but realistically, at what age, or at what point does it become ok to be non-compliant with law enforcement and who makes that judgment?

She could have just as easily grabbed the gun in the scuffle and shot the cop if she had been a nutball like that 88 year old guy in DC.

Any emergency services job even EMT or Paramedic can get messy and ugly as h**l sometimes and things happen that from the outside looking in are extremely objectionable.

I've been in situations where a poorly controlled diabetic or drug addict would enter an altered state of consciousness become combative and dangerous to himself and others and get piled on by a half dozen people in an effort to control the situation. I'm sure from the viewpoint of a cell phone cam it looked like Rodney King all over again. The reality is, you can't even begin to assess the situation until you have control of the situation.

The object of the game when things go bad is that everyone goes home and no permanent damage gets done. How it looks on youtube doesn't even get a seconds thought.

There's nothing easier than sitting in the cheap seats and throwing rocks at the guy on the field.

I wouldn't like it if he tazed my mom at all but, if that was her on the vid I'd be like, "Geeze mom, what the hell did you expect?"

 

[Metal Mitch]

Thanks for adding something to the thread. I was geting tired of the rational thoughts of people, too...

Mike

Where do you see anybody being rational on this thread?

I watched the video. What I see is a big, stupid, P*SSY assaulting a defenseless innocent civilian for no reason. He created a violent situation by shoving her unprovoked, then used excessive force.

Are you also in favor of violence against children?

Animal Control would have done a better job of handling that situation.

This cop should lose his job and be prosecuted for felonius assault.