TC ELECTRONIC BH550 AMP HEAD - WEAK TREBLE

[The_Law31]

Hi All,

Hope everyone is doing good

Does anyone here own a TC Electronic BH550 Amp head?

I have owned my BH550 for a few months now after buying it second hand, During a practice at home I noticed the Treble knob has absolutely zero audible effect no matter how high I turn it up, I have since taken it to two reputable techs who tell me everything is working absolutely fine but Amps/Combos of other brands Ive played in the Past Treble has had a colossal noticeable difference. Ive been using my 1 x 15 Ashdown Cab and ran a handful of Bass through this Amp head to which have had no success in increasing Treble levels.

I've thought about sending it to the Officially recommended TC Electronic Recommended Repair Vendors but it will cost a large sum to potentially be told there's yet again nothing wrong with the Amp. Is this the way the Amp has been Designed or does this sound like a particular issue with my BH550?

 

[drpepper]

Does your cabinet have a tweeter?

Do you have other heads or another head for comparison with the same cabinet?

The EQ is "dynamic" in that the frequency that is being boosted increases as you increase the treble (don't know the frequencies). If you don't have a tweeter, you could just be going into a range that has very little effect on what you're hearing.

 

[The_Law31]

Does your cabinet have a tweeter?

Do you have other heads or another head for comparison with the same cabinet?

The EQ is "dynamic" in that the frequency that is being boosted increases as you increase the treble (don't know the frequencies). If you don't have a tweeter, you could just be going into a range that has very little effect on what you're hearing.

Hi,

I don't believe so, its just a 15 inch Speaker

Ive tried Running a Markbass head through it and everything works accordingly with audible changes can be heard. All the Highs make a huge difference.

 

[Wicked G]

Although I have not owned the BH550 I have owned the BH250 and BH800 which are pretty much the same amp. Adjusting the treble knob did produce a large difference in tone throughout the whole rotation. Have you ran any other amps through that cab?

Maybe they are not a good match? While I have had great success running the BH heads through all of my cabs, I did try the BH250 once through a Marshal 810 and no matter how much I turned the Mid knob, I couldn't hear any difference whatsoever. That was the only cab I ever experienced that through.

 

[drpepper]

Well, given that you say that that "two reputable techs" have checked it out and don't find any problem, I don't know how much anyone not actually hearing what you are is going to be able to say.

I'd also want to try the BH550 with a different cabinet.

Just speculating, but the EQ frequencies are pretty different between Markbass and the BHs. The BH boost puts the shelf at 4 kHz. I believe Markbass is 10 kHz. It might be that it's a matter of peculiarities of the pairing and even without a tweeter, the lower EQ point buries the difference and the 10 kHz point ends up standing out more.

 

[The_Law31]

Although I have not owned the BH550 I have owned the BH250 and BH800 which are pretty much the same amp. Adjusting the treble knob did produce a large difference in tone throughout the whole rotation. Have you ran any other amps through that cab?

Maybe they are not a good match? While I have had great success running the BH heads through all of my cabs, I did try the BH250 once through a Marshal 810 and no matter how much I turned the Mid knob, I couldn't hear any difference whatsoever. That was the only cab I ever experienced that through.

Well, given that you say that that "two reputable techs" have checked it out and don't find any problem, I don't know how much anyone not actually hearing what you are is going to be able to say.

I'd also want to try the BH550 with a different cabinet.

Just speculating, but the EQ frequencies are pretty different between Markbass and the BHs. The BH boosts puts the shelf at 4 kHz. I believe Markbass is 10 kHz. It might be that it's a matter of peculiarities of the pairing and even without a tweeter, the lower EQ point buries the difference and the 10 kHz point ends up standing out more.

Awesome thanks Guys

That was something one of the Techs mentioned too about it potentially could be something to do with Cab choice, I did wonder judging from the lack of anyone else seeming to have this issue that it was probably something to do with my Setup. Ill trying running it through a Markbass 4 x 10 Cab and see if It Resolves the issue and let you guys know.

Many thanks for the Help so far Ill keep you both Posted

 

[Julian G]

I run thre BH550 through my Markbass 121H which has a compression driver (tweeter) that's adjustable and I don't know (not techy enough) if that has anything to do with it but I've had no issues with the treble.

 

[frankie5string]

If your single 15 doesn't really do much above 3k, then you'll likely not hear the boost. Boosting starts at 4k on that amp. Also, if you're running any TonePrints, some of them can fight the built in EQ a bit.

 

[The_Law31]

Although I have not owned the BH550 I have owned the BH250 and BH800 which are pretty much the same amp. Adjusting the treble knob did produce a large difference in tone throughout the whole rotation. Have you ran any other amps through that cab?

Maybe they are not a good match? While I have had great success running the BH heads through all of my cabs, I did try the BH250 once through a Marshal 810 and no matter how much I turned the Mid knob, I couldn't hear any difference whatsoever. That was the only cab I ever experienced that through.

I run thre BH550 through my Markbass 121H which has a compression driver (tweeter) that's adjustable and I don't know (not techy enough) if that has anything to do with it but I've had no issues with the treble.

If your single 15 doesn't really do much above 3k, then you'll likely not hear the boost. Boosting starts at 4k on that amp. Also, if you're running any TonePrints, some of them can fight the built in EQ a bit.

Hi All,

So I went to pick my amp head up from the latest Tech a few days back in which He showed me the Frequency levels of each of the Knobs while blasting pink noise through the system. I think the High + Low Mids and Bass Reached around 800 kHZ at Max where as My Treble was only reaching around a mere 20-24 kHz maximum, surely this cannot be correct that looks like a massive difference compared to the other Knobs. I have since tried it on a Relatives Mark bass 4 x 10 Cab to which I was met with the same Lack of any audible difference is this Correct Level of output for the treble knob or should it be outputting way way more?

 

[agedhorse]

It’s a shelving control, maximum cut/boost occurs (in practice) at the end of the audio band which is generally considered to be 20kHz and beyond.

If your tech says that it’s working correctly, trust them. If the way it operates doesn’t work for you, then it’s time to look at other amps to find one that works for your needs and expectations.

 

[drpepper]

the High + Low Mids and Bass Reached around 800 kHZ at Max where as My Treble was only reaching around a mere 20-24 kHz maximum

...looks like a massive difference compared to the other Knobs. I have since tried it on a Relatives Mark bass 4 x 10 Cab to which I was met with the same Lack of any audible difference is this Correct Level of output for the treble knob or should it be outputting way way more?

Hmm...dealing with just what the tech showed you, it's difficult to tell (from what you're saying) if you have the correct conceptual grasp of what you were looking at ...

Did they show this to you and say it was a visual representation of "the problem" or show it to you and still say there was no problem???

You were likely looking at a possible range of frequencies from 0 hertz to something around some low tens of thousands of hertz. Hertz are abbreviated as "Hz" and thousands of hertz - or kilohertz - are abbreviated as "kHz" (a distinction with a difference in what you wrote).

The BH550 boosts frequencies at (and around) 80 Hz for the bass control, 160 Hz for the low mid, 800 Hz for the high mid, and 4,000 Hz (or 4 kHz) for the treble. For the middle controls 160 Hz and 800 Hz are the "center" frequency. If represented on a graph as a curve, they form a hump with the peak at those center frequencies. The bass and treble are shelf frequencies, not center frequencies because their fall off and cut off on the outsides of the frequency range is dictated by pass filters and/or by the inherent design limits of the equipment.

I believe the treble shelving frequency of 4,000 Hz is relatively low. The Markbass, for example is 10,000 Hz. What this means is that the point that is being boosted most dramatically on the BH550 is much lower than the Markbass. Both are in the area of string noise and shimmer, but the change they would produce would be different in character. It seems that it's possible for your expectations in this are to be such that not hearing what you're expecting is preventing you from hearing what's happening. Also, out of curiosity, how old are you? There are firm physiological differences in hearing after our 20s.

 

[DWBass]

I had a BQ500 and it basically had no treble. I sold it. I'm a slapper and I absolutely need treble out of my amps.

 

[drpepper]

I have a BQ250 that I've never used much. The above post from @DWBass and a recollection of at least a couple of people believing their BG250 tweeters weren't working made me decide to try a couple of things.

I tried a P-Bass with the BQ and cabinet with a bright tweeter. While it certainly wasn't lacking in treble at all for my tastes and expectations, boosting the treble made very little change. I decided to try headphones and found that I could very clearly hear a boost and cut, but it occurred to me that it was really more and overtone quality to the sound (mostly just boosting and cutting of hiss) than a real difference in the sound of the bass. Next, I grabbed a J-Bass with with an passive/active switch. Passive, it was the same as the P. Active and flat, it was also the same. Active with treble boosted on the the bass and BOOM, the EQ on the head has full range from a muted/rolled off tone to overly glassy treble that captures every metal-to-metal contact click and high pitched hand-to-bass sound.

For me, that's the satisfactory answer...not the frequency centers (the BQ's treble is 10 kHz) or the whether the cabinet in question has a tweeter, I think it's a simply matter of how the BH, BG and BQ EQ sections work and act on the signal that's coming in. They don't "create treble" that's not there, but more accurately can be said to respond to the bass's EQ, allowing what's coming from the bass through. I also recall finding and commenting that Eich EQ works this way.

If you're playing an active bass. Open up the treble and use the bass's EQ as the starting point for your tone. If don't want to do that or you're using a passive bass and can't, then this head isn't malfunctioning but it's simply not going to meet your expectations for treble.

 

[agedhorse]

Hmm...dealing with just what the tech showed you, it's difficult to tell (from what you're saying) if you have the correct conceptual grasp of what you were looking at ...

Did they show this to you and say it was a visual representation of "the problem" or show it to you and still say there was no problem???

You were likely looking at a possible range of frequencies from 0 hertz to something around some low tens of thousands of hertz. Hertz are abbreviated as "Hz" and thousands of hertz - or kilohertz - are abbreviated as "kHz" (a distinction with a difference in what you wrote).

The BH550 boosts frequencies at (and around) 80 Hz for the bass control, 160 Hz for the low mid, 800 Hz for the high mid, and 4,000 Hz (or 4 kHz) for the treble. For the middle controls 160 Hz and 800 Hz are the "center" frequency. If represented on a graph as a curve, they form a hump with the peak at those center frequencies. The bass and treble are shelf frequencies, not center frequencies because their fall off and cut off on the outsides of the frequency range is dictated by pass filters and/or by the inherent design limits of the equipment.

I believe the treble shelving frequency of 4,000 Hz is relatively low. The Markbass, for example is 10,000 Hz. What this means is that the point that is being boosted most dramatically on the BH550 is much lower than the Markbass. Both are in the area of string noise and shimmer, but the change they would produce would be different in character. It seems that it's possible for your expectations in this are to be such that not hearing what you're expecting is preventing you from hearing what's happening. Also, out of curiosity, how old are you? There are firm physiological differences in hearing after our 20s.

Shelving filters can be specified in different ways. Generally, when 10kHz is specified, that's the plateau for the boost/cut portion and in fact is has a roughly 6dB slope from there to the mid band. When 4kHz is specified, that's probably around an octave or so from the knee. So for 12dB of boost/cut, that would be close to 10kHz at +/-3dB.

 

[The_Law31]

Hi All,

Apologies for Disappearing life stuff sort of crept up on me

Thank you all for the Helpful advice and recommendations I cannot thank you all enough

I Got back in touch with my Tech after reading what the manual says the specs should be giving off and my tech mentioned it was a much higher frequency and recommended I take it to a TCE endorsed Service Centre which will cost me a large amount.

 

[6thplanet]

Why not just take your cab with the amp to the tech?

 

[The_Law31]

I have a BQ250 that I've never used much. The above post from @DWBass and a recollection of at least a couple of people believing their BG250 tweeters weren't working made me decide to try a couple of things.

I tried a P-Bass with the BQ and cabinet with a bright tweeter. While it certainly wasn't lacking in treble at all for my tastes and expectations, boosting the treble made very little change. I decided to try headphones and found that I could very clearly hear a boost and cut, but it occurred to me that it was really more and overtone quality to the sound (mostly just boosting and cutting of hiss) than a real difference in the sound of the bass. Next, I grabbed a J-Bass with with an passive/active switch. Passive, it was the same as the P. Active and flat, it was also the same. Active with treble boosted on the the bass and BOOM, the EQ on the head has full range from a muted/rolled off tone to overly glassy treble that captures every metal-to-metal contact click and high pitched hand-to-bass sound.

For me, that's the satisfactory answer...not the frequency centers (the BQ's treble is 10 kHz) or the whether the cabinet in question has a tweeter, I think it's a simply matter of how the BH, BG and BQ EQ sections work and act on the signal that's coming in. They don't "create treble" that's not there, but more accurately can be said to respond to the bass's EQ, allowing what's coming from the bass through. I also recall finding and commenting that Eich EQ works this way.

If you're playing an active bass. Open up the treble and use the bass's EQ as the starting point for your tone. If don't want to do that or you're using a passive bass and can't, then this head isn't malfunctioning but it's simply not going to meet your expectations for treble.

Ive checked over the Ashdown Cab im using and everything is working perfectly so I think I can rule that out, Ive tried with multiple times of Bass both active and Passive and both seem to sound the same. I can completely understand what you mean the Head itself may not be to my specifications but surely they wouldn't bother adding the knob if the difference to the sound was so miniscule it was barely audible.

Hmm...dealing with just what the tech showed you, it's difficult to tell (from what you're saying) if you have the correct conceptual grasp of what you were looking at ...

Did they show this to you and say it was a visual representation of "the problem" or show it to you and still say there was no problem???

You were likely looking at a possible range of frequencies from 0 hertz to something around some low tens of thousands of hertz. Hertz are abbreviated as "Hz" and thousands of hertz - or kilohertz - are abbreviated as "kHz" (a distinction with a difference in what you wrote).

The BH550 boosts frequencies at (and around) 80 Hz for the bass control, 160 Hz for the low mid, 800 Hz for the high mid, and 4,000 Hz (or 4 kHz) for the treble. For the middle controls 160 Hz and 800 Hz are the "center" frequency. If represented on a graph as a curve, they form a hump with the peak at those center frequencies. The bass and treble are shelf frequencies, not center frequencies because their fall off and cut off on the outsides of the frequency range is dictated by pass filters and/or by the inherent design limits of the equipment.

I believe the treble shelving frequency of 4,000 Hz is relatively low. The Markbass, for example is 10,000 Hz. What this means is that the point that is being boosted most dramatically on the BH550 is much lower than the Markbass. Both are in the area of string noise and shimmer, but the change they would produce would be different in character. It seems that it's possible for your expectations in this are to be such that not hearing what you're expecting is preventing you from hearing what's happening. Also, out of curiosity, how old are you? There are firm physiological differences in hearing after our 20s.

Apologies I think I may have got my units of measurement wrong, I stupidly forgot to write them down so i was essentially going from memory when writing those lol. I see what you mean compared to the Markbass head that is a colossal difference. I'm in my early Twenties so I dont think my hearing should have been Affected yet but I wouldnt rule it out completely due to how loud I like to turn my gear up at times lol.

 

[The_Law31]

Why not just take your cab with the amp to the tech?

I did suggest that but due to Covid Limitations at the time It wasn't possible

Unfortunately he hadn't worked on the software sides Of TCE Amp Heads before but from a hardware perspective all was intact he did general maintenance soldering over the pots, Cleaning the inside and He couldn't find a single Fault.

His guess was it was more than likely down to the software in the amp but apart from that we both had No idea

 

[agedhorse]

Soldering the pots isn’t normal maintenance, it’s not even recommended.

 

[The_Law31]

Soldering the pots isn’t normal maintenance, it’s not even recommended.

I think he was just trying to cover all grounds to make sure it wasnt a hardware fault he tried everything he could think of, I dont think he normally goes over the solder points as a regular practice. Apologies reading that back I think I may have worded that incorrectly my bad