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TC ELECTRONIC BH550 AMP HEAD - WEAK TREBLE
- Thread starter The_Law31
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- tc electronic bh550
I think it was coming through okay using the Pink noise however it wasnt reaching the correct frequency as it was way higher that the manual requested. He mentioned about in the manual it reads about Digital Circuits Controlling EQ poles based on gain and to try updating my firmware. Come to think of it I might have just put two and two together and assumed he meant software so I may just be getting myself confused
He Didnt have anything But a pink noise generator to gather the readings plugged into the head when He showed me alongside the power cable.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,051
- 5
- 221,021
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
It is entirely possible, Ive tried everything I can think of and even discovered a BassTheWorld.Com Video On youtube relating the The Exact same amp in which he goes through each setting on it and you can tell there is a audible difference in the Treble. I'm Really not sure how to proceed with this amp, If it is actually broken in the first place and what avenue to peruse next lol.
I have thought about selling it if its not meeting my desired specs but then id be worried about selling a broken piece of kit to someone if it is actually broken. Its a real rock and a hard place
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,051
- 5
- 221,021
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
All that anyone here can do is offer their apparently similar experiences and speculation. If your amp was in front of me, I could know if matches what I'm experiencing or not. Beyond that, I have your written descriptions and I'm not a technician.
If you *boosted the treble* on an active bass (not just used an active bass) and still find that adjusting the treble control makes almost no difference, then it wouldn't appear that you are experiencing the same effect that I am. But again, you are not necessarily hearing (perceiving) what's happening the same way I am or would based on my expectations and preferences.
Because of the way you've described your circumstances combined with the facts that I've seen other posts where BH, BG and BQ owners have had concerns about the treble control or that their tweeter wasn't working and that I can both reproduce what I believe would cause those concerns and get clear effectiveness from the treble control, this is pretty ambiguous. I believe it's possible that your amp is in need of repair to operate as it's supposed to, but to me, it's also entirely possible that it's working the way it's supposed to, and for whatever reason, you're not actually getting to the conditions to make that apparent.
Good luck with it.
My theory, mostly already expressed in other posts: The source signal -- your bass -- has limited HF content. The speaker also has extremely limited HF response. Together, there's not too much happening in the range effected by the amp's HF shelving filter. Play some recorded, full-range music back through the amp. And if possible, plug the amp into a different speaker cab, preferably one that does have some HF response -- ones with piezo "tweeters" don't count. 
Then twist your knobs post to post and see if you hear some difference. It may well be that the amp is working correctly, just as the techs have said, and that you just aren't hearing it for these reasons.
Edit: As an alternative to using a different speaker cab, try listening to full-range music played back through the amp and monitor the headphone out. Note that in either instance, you need to be using the regular instrument input, not the Aux In for this to work, I think.
Then twist your knobs post to post and see if you hear some difference. It may well be that the amp is working correctly, just as the techs have said, and that you just aren't hearing it for these reasons.Edit: As an alternative to using a different speaker cab, try listening to full-range music played back through the amp and monitor the headphone out. Note that in either instance, you need to be using the regular instrument input, not the Aux In for this to work, I think.
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Yup
Its a Shame because I absolutely adore the tone print options, I can sort of make up for the lack of treble by increasing the low and high mids so I suppose ive got a choice to make Many thanks for Insight bud, you make some very Valid points. Im Driving myself crazy over the fears of if its broken or if its all okay and I'm just overestimating its treble capabilities. I really am stuck despite trying to narrow it down as far as I see it I think I only have one last resource send it off to a Official TCE Endorsed place and see what they come back with. If they say its all fine I guess ill just have to bite my tongue and sell the amp on
My theory, mostly already expressed in other posts: The source signal -- your bass -- has limited HF content. The speaker also has extremely limited HF response. Together, there's not too much happening in the range effected by the amp's HF shelving filter. Play some recorded, full-range music back through the amp. And if possible, plug the amp into a different speaker cab, preferably one that does have some HF response -- ones with piezo "tweeters" don't count.
Edit: As an alternative to using a different speaker cab, try listening to full-range music played back through the amp and monitor the headphone out. Note that you need to be using the regular instrument input, not the Aux In for this to work, I think.
Again some very Vaild Points, thank you my friend. I shall give this a attempt tomorrow
This has also got me thinking, could it be down to it not being paired with a CAB of the same brand as to why it may not be as effective could it?
scottfeldstein
Roots and fifths and a little extra.
Hm. I had a 250 for six months or so and the only thing I noticed about the EQ was that it was way clever. I hope this isn't a manufacturing defect because I have a used 550 arriving on Wednesday. By the way, I played the 250 through an Eden 112 and my GK Neo 112 stack. Didn't notice anything unusual.
Unless I am overlooking something, I have not read where you have tried this head on a different cab with a tweeter? You have been dealing with this now since March. I just saw your other post where you are thinking about trying another TC head.
I would seriously recommend trying your head first on another cab before getting another head and finding that it also does not match up well with your Ashdown cab. That would be a sad waste of money and a hard lesson learned.
I would seriously recommend trying your head first on another cab before getting another head and finding that it also does not match up well with your Ashdown cab. That would be a sad waste of money and a hard lesson learned.
I don't have any experience with the BH amps, but after another TB member reported that his BQ-500 had poor HF response and the HF EQ had zero effect on his signal, I checked mine out with a spectrum analyzer. It showed flat response to 16KHz and the EQ worked pretty much as one would expect. The HF shelving EQ on those is "spec'ed" as being 10K, and if it has the typical 12dB slope, one would really have to crank the knob to have a noticeable effect down where the OP's speaker is providing any response. I think 10K is about an octave too high to be of much use for most bass players, but it's not all that unusual either.
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I tried it with a Relatives 4 x 10 Markbass Cab not too long ago, and was met with the same outcome unfortunately
That is a very Valid point Friend I was intending on try to get to the bottom of the BH550 issue for a little longer but I've only just found out BH500 heads are no longer in production and I found a local music store selling one so I thought Id look into it Just trying to keep my options open incase of a worst case senario Hmm now that is very interesting, So do you think this could be just the Amps EQ responding as normally and its leaning more towards me just expecting too much from the treble (Apologies Im not very Techy when it comes to the mention of KHZ and Hz Ive came to find out as this thread progresses lol
)lol not far off, I've tried the amp head with the following bass
My primary weapon of choice is a Passive Squire P-Bass
Bass I have also tried in the past that I Borrowed from other Bassist:
Rickenbacker 4003
Sterling Music Man
Jackson JS2 Active concert Bass
A copy of a Fender P Bass Not sure of Brand
All of these Bass had Round Wound Strings on and I messed around with the tone control to no further Avail
The CAB im using Is A Ashdown Rootmaster Mag 115 - 8 ohms - 250 Watt - 1 x 15 Cabinet
The Markbass Cab I tried it with is a Markbass Standard 104HR - 4 Ohms - 800 Watt - 4 X 10 Cabinet
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Did you turn the treble control on the Music Man all the way up and then check the effect of boosting and cutting the treble control on the amp?
If not, IMO you are running yourself in circles. The amp's treble control can only *boost* what is there in the signal it's receiving. For frequencies that were completely cut off or reduced at an earlier point in the chain to the degree that increasing them 24 dB still leaves them mostly inaudible (as with a passive P-Bass), you're expecting the amp's treble control to re-create frequency content, not boost it.
A bass's electronics can be "active" (as with the Jackson) and not actually allow you to boost the treble, i.e., active electronics may be for the purpose of increasing the output of the pickups but not include active equalization. A "tone" control is generally going to act only as an attenuator where wide open would be the same as eq controls being centered (i.e., no cut, no boost, no effect on the pickup's inherent frequency response)
Ah I think I get what you mean sort of
So Basically by doing that with the Music man I would get a sense of seeing what the Bass + Amps Treble Capabilitys would be but also Seeing the Flow of what the Natural Bass Preamp treble would be outputting without the BH550 Treble on top right?
Apologies if non of that makes sense Im struggling to wrap my head around the techy side lol
I know there is so many possibilities to what is going on with this amp but from an advice point of view Im curious to know what would you do if you were in this situation
as you mentioned Im going back and forth and am worried im goign to be stuck in a infinite loop of trying to look for things that have an equal chance of not even being a Physical issue lol
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Apologies if non of that makes sense Im struggling to wrap my head around the techy side lol
I know there is so many possibilities to what is going on with this amp but from an advice point of view Im curious to know what would you do if you were in this situation
We don't all wrap our heads around things the same way.
If I were you, I would get my hands on a bass with active EQ, not active pick ups and a tone control, and open up the treble control on the bass, I strongly believe this would allow you to hear what you're looking for and at least give you peace of mind that the amp isn't broken. I also have a sense that this is a situation similar to the cliche of not being able to unhear something and as it stands, since you have a p-bass, as soon as you're back to your bass, you are not going to hear it with the combination of that bass and amp. So, if it's something that you really want to hear, IMO get a different amp, its EQ isn't for you.
In terms of wrapping your head around it, maybe think of the amp's treble control as being a kind of gatekeeper or valve...raising its level effectively opens it and increases the amount of high frequencies it will allow through, but it can only allow frequencies through that are there to go through, it can't create them. If it was allowing water through, you could open the valve, but if no water is being supplied, none would come through.
The sound of stringed instruments is a complex blend of sounds, and the part that's made up of musical/pitch content (fundamental and harmonic frequencies) ends in the range of 4 KHz for a bass. The coloring of the sound above that includes non-musical components that are much of the "shimmery" sound you're looking for, and includes things like the contact sounds from touching and rubbing sounds made by metal to wood, metal to metal, skin to metal, and nails or pick to metal. These can be included in the output of the bass to the audible frequency limits imposed by the tone control in the case of a passive bass. If you google something like "frequency response curves for passive p-pass pickups", you'll see that the output of higher frequencies begins to drop off between 1 and 4 KHz and where and how steeply the drop off occurs is based on the value of the tone capacitor, but generally, the drop off is such that there is little or no content by 10 KHz. If this isn't boosted before it leaves the bass (by active EQ), there is nothing or not enough for the amp's treble control to boost. You turn up the treble and hear almost no difference and believe the amp is broken. A different amp model/brand may have a different enough baseline level and frequency response that you'll find something more along the lines of what you're expecting...I've owned BG, BH and BQ models and don't believe you're going to be able to hear anything with your p-bass.
Passive Tone Controls Explained | eBass
scottfeldstein
Roots and fifths and a little extra.
Well, I just took my new (to me) BH550 for a spin. The treble knob does in fact work. But it is more subtle than the EQs of other amps. I like it. It makes more of the knob range to fall inside the "usable" area. It did help to turn my cabs tweeters up to halfway.
