It's like talking to a wall; they didn't say it could put out 450W RMS. So instead of RMS you can put "perceived loudness" in there, physical quantity or not is irrelevant.
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TC Electronic controversy...solved.
- Thread starter cheezewiz
- Start date
It's like talking to a wall; they didn't say it could put out 450W RMS. So instead of RMS you can put "perceived loudness" in there, physical quantity or not is irrelevant.
Lying by omission is still lying. If I said I'll sell you my amp for 500, and later said I meant 500 Mercedes and not dollars, would you think I was being honest? That is some weak reasoning.
I don't own ampeg or TC products so I'm in no way biased. Most ad copy is not as truthful as it should be. TC's claim was an outright lie as far as I'm concerned, and claiming that it's ok that they did it because nobody would buy it if they told the truth is a sad excuse.
And if you have to have a discussion about whether or not a statement was a lie, then AT BEST it falls into a grey area, which to me is just not good enough for a basis on which to build a good relationship with a manufacturer.
I don't own ampeg or TC products so I'm in no way biased. Most ad copy is not as truthful as it should be. TC's claim was an outright lie as far as I'm concerned, and claiming that it's ok that they did it because nobody would buy it if they told the truth is a sad excuse.
And if you have to have a discussion about whether or not a statement was a lie, then AT BEST it falls into a grey area, which to me is just not good enough for a basis on which to build a good relationship with a manufacturer.
It seems pretty clear to me:
1. Watts is not a measure of loudness
2. Many people don't know that
3. TC realised this
4. <discussed to death>
5. PROFIT!
Is this cool?
Disclaimer: I don't own nor have even tried any TC product.
1. Watts is not a measure of loudness
2. Many people don't know that
3. TC realised this
4. <discussed to death>
5. PROFIT!
Is this cool?
Disclaimer: I don't own nor have even tried any TC product.
LOL! Exactly!If you think the two companies are precisely comparable on this matter, have fun with that.
imho considering the accepted language/terms used in standard MI retail circles providing 2 numbers, one of which you identify as PEAK more than implies the other number is RMS....
otherwise WHAT is the number there for? How many milligrams it weighs? number of happy customers? type of Johnson Rod used?
It can't put out 450 anything, watts, silk purses or boiled eggs.
@ earlier poster, FWIW, from everything I've seen, the 3pro does put out it's rated power. People think they're underpowered because they don't RTFM and thus don't know how to set up the gain structure as intended. I haven't owned one, but played a couple, and didn't get the feeling it was weaker than it was supposed to be.
BurningSkies
CRAZY BALDHEAD
- Feb 20, 2005
- 27,956
- 20,350
- Disclosures
- Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
Not to mention that watts have never been a measure of loudness, but of output power. This amp neither outputs 450 or 800.
The description of the 450 head on Musicians Friend states : " 450W of Class D Power ". If I did'nt know better, I would think I was buying a 450 watt bass head. What else could it mean?
I wanted to like the RH 750, I really did. I wish I had tried it at a store, but I live in the sticks, that wasn't an option. I ordered from Zzounds.com. The amp didn't cut it, not even close, the foot controller didn't function at all. Zzounds return policy worked way better than the amp!
First problem, no balls in the low end department, a complete fail for the B string.
Second, there was no clean option. Everything had a moderate level of dirt that could be increased but not decreased. Who needs compression when you aren't getting enough power and response to begin with?
I A/B tested it against my GK 1001 rb 2, and against the Carvin 500 bx. The TC wasn't even in the ball park. Frankly, the $300 Carvin smoked it for power, clarity, and eq possibilities. The Carvin doesn't have the super slick package and presets, but it does have a foot switch option, to kick in a second eq.
All tests were through my fEarfuls, at both 8 and 4 ohms.
This amp was touted as a 750 watt "monster". Sorry, not even close.
I admit it, I fell for the pretty pictures, and lusted for all the bells and whistles. I slowly scrolled my mouse over the enlarged detail photos. I fantasized about plugging in to her headphone jack. I craved the preset memory settings.
Alas, my mail order bride was not all she claimed to be.
The fast, easy return made Zzounds.com my first call retailer.
I ended up buying a Carvin HD1500 power amp for $300. Even running 300 watts per side at 8 ohms into a pair of fEarfuls, the Carvin kicks butt. I should get around to trying it bridged at 4ohms for the full 1500!
First problem, no balls in the low end department, a complete fail for the B string.
Second, there was no clean option. Everything had a moderate level of dirt that could be increased but not decreased. Who needs compression when you aren't getting enough power and response to begin with?
I A/B tested it against my GK 1001 rb 2, and against the Carvin 500 bx. The TC wasn't even in the ball park. Frankly, the $300 Carvin smoked it for power, clarity, and eq possibilities. The Carvin doesn't have the super slick package and presets, but it does have a foot switch option, to kick in a second eq.
All tests were through my fEarfuls, at both 8 and 4 ohms.
This amp was touted as a 750 watt "monster". Sorry, not even close.
I admit it, I fell for the pretty pictures, and lusted for all the bells and whistles. I slowly scrolled my mouse over the enlarged detail photos. I fantasized about plugging in to her headphone jack. I craved the preset memory settings.
Alas, my mail order bride was not all she claimed to be.
The fast, easy return made Zzounds.com my first call retailer.
I ended up buying a Carvin HD1500 power amp for $300. Even running 300 watts per side at 8 ohms into a pair of fEarfuls, the Carvin kicks butt. I should get around to trying it bridged at 4ohms for the full 1500!
Could you imagine the mess this thread would turn into had the O.P. asked about using a RH450 with a Ric 4003!
I have a 450... it works and has not failed me... but I still have a major hate for TC's marketing department and the continued false marketing going on with their vendors.
On the up side, I was so early into the 450 game, that so far anyway, I still have all my knobs!
Fishheadjoe
I have a 450... it works and has not failed me... but I still have a major hate for TC's marketing department and the continued false marketing going on with their vendors.
On the up side, I was so early into the 450 game, that so far anyway, I still have all my knobs!
Fishheadjoe
I had the exact same issues. suck part is picked up used and had to wait for the cabs to try it out so no returning anything now I have to unload this load and cabs cause I've also dicovered I hate rear ported cabs . DUHHHH leason learned I was due for one .
The location of the port is 100% immaterial to the sound of the cab. This has been proven many times over and over by those whose business it is to know cab construction. If you didn't care for the cabs, it has nothing to do with the port location. The port could have been on the front or side and it would still sound the same.
They said it could put out 450 watts.
Watts are a physical quantity. Very well defined. Since 1882.
Watt means one thing, and one thing only.
A watt is one joule per second and it measures the rate of energy conversion. That is all. Nothing else.
In electronics one watt is the rate at which work is done when one amp of current flows through an electrical potential difference of one volt.
It doesn't measure perceived volume.
This very much sums up the issue. And also points out the the thread title is misleading.
Personally if a company claims something that is false, would I trust them with other issues, too? Like return policies?
That's a perfect example and no it wouldn't be lying. And it isn't weak reasoning, it's a fact.
And the TH450 can output 450W for 20ms without APM and 800W peak with APM. If that's not the case they would be lying, cause there are no blank spots open for assumption, in their powerrating document.
I couldn't care less about TC, but people falling for marketingtricks and pointing fingers to someone else...
Assumption is the mother of all f**kups.
No, it can't.
The power module contained in the TH450 can output 450W for 20ms with the APM turned off.
...but it's IMPOSSIBLE for a user to turn APM off. You can never, ever, get that 450 watts at the speaker output terminals on the amp.
...and it can't put out 800W peak with APM. It can put out ~240W peak (and RMS) with APM.
I am getting repetitive, but it doesn't say anywhere 450W at the speaker output terminal. It just says 450W output power, if thats 450W before APM, it's still true even if you can't turn it off.
And if it can't output (anywhere in the unit) 800W for any short a time, then it's a lie in their document.
If it's wise for a company to state their specs as they do is a different matter.
There is nowhere you can get 450 watts at any output.
If you could turn the APM off (you can't) and you had access to the output of the internal power module (you don't - it isn't output anywhere external to the amp) then you could see 450 watts.
So it can't output 450W.
It's a lie.
Nowhere on the external surface of the unit can you derive greater than 240 watts of power (peak or RMS) no matter what you do.
