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TC Electronic RH450 discussion - Tweaking the Preamp

#381
Ur2funky said:
A feature I would love to see on these RH450 & Staccato'51s would be that the shift button also shifts the presets, giving you access to 3 additional presets. It can be annoying being able to only store 2 presets if you want to edit and compare one to a another
Click to expand...

well, what would be even cooler is this: by pressing shift the memory buttons become "maps", so we would have three maps, each with three memories. but that's overkill, IMHO. personally, I am completely satisfied with three memories as they are (fretted, frettless, upright).

regarding low-pass filtering and "reduced" high frequencies - has anyone tried adjusting the tweeter on their cabs? I sold EBS HD-350 to buy TC RH450, yeah, definitely less high end, it's noticeable. but adding just a bit of tweeter on my speakers (EBS pro-line 410 & EBS neo-line 112) helps a lot. just a thought.
 
#383
+1. That button behavior (without some indicators) would confuse 90% of the users.

As a Mac support specialist (after 30 years of software development), I see many clients confused by iTunes' play/pause button. There's plenty of screen space for separate play and STOP buttons. Even worse are the stop/resume printing buttons, and Mail's junk/not junk buttons, both of which are always confused for indicators rather than action-buttons.
 
#385
Hi everyone

Ive managed to start fiddling around with the top end again, as per how Ken did a few weeks back.

Now, Im not one for massive high end anyway. A nice sweet treble but with a warmth is what seems to work for me. Anything else is just a little 'piercing'.

I do think TC have pretty much nailed the high end on this amp. But, I do think the addition of being able to tweak this for whichever bass/band setting/user requirements is a very good concept, and I would still like to be able to open up that high end. Its a good option, even though personally I wouldnt use it that often.

Im going to try out the compressor 'settings' that Uffe sent out soon. I must admit before this amp, I never used compression, but Im finding a few clicks on the Spectracomp can have very nice results.

Im really enjoying just trying new things out.

I have a full rehearsal tonight with my originals band (very complex modern punk...) so I will be seeing how things go with the TC amp. The main guitarist has been away teaching in India, but now we are ready to get going as a full outfit again and I think he will be very impressed with this TC gear! I will make sure he tries out a Polytune (whether it be the App or the Pedal itself!).
 
#386
As the other testers will no doubt find out when they get to their emails, Uffe at TC has just sent out an update to the program!

This part is what interests me the most.

Now we can actually change the 'baked in' frequencies. So, in effect, very similar to the Staccato 51.

:)
 
#389
Update:

TC has sent us an updated and expanded version of the tweaker software. This software is closer (it seems) to the full blown voicing software they used to create the Staccato.

Now, along with the other features (EQ center points and Q, compressor settings, and the hi pass/tweetertone control), there is a set of controls that can be used to change the inherent voicing of the amp, independent of the EQ knobs.

There are four 'voicing' bands. Each band has various 'filters' (lo pass, hi pass and shelving with different roll-off slopes, and band filters with different Q's). So, for example, you can voice both the low end bass extension deeper and the treble extension higher (I guess similar to the tweetertone control), put a narrow Q cut at 1K and a slight, wide Q boost at 250 hz, and then 'bake that' into the amp. That would then be the 'flat/neutral' EQ voicing of the amp, prior to adjusting any of the on-board EQ knobs.

Pretty cool, although again, not sure how much something like this would be used.

I have a few questions that I want to get answered by TC before I start tweaking all this stuff. I'm on the road gigging this weekend, but assuming Uffe gets back to me, I'll mess with it and put up a clip if I find something worthwhile.

K
 
#390
KJung said:
Update:

TC has sent us an updated and expanded version of the tweaker software. This software is closer (it seems) to the full blown voicing software they used to create the Staccato.

Now, along with the other features (EQ center points and Q, compressor settings, and the hi pass/tweetertone control), there is a set of controls that can be used to change the inherent voicing of the amp, independent of the EQ knobs.

There are four 'voicing' bands. Each band has various 'filters' (lo pass, hi pass and shelving with different roll-off slopes, and band filters with different Q's). So, for example, you can voice both the low end bass extension deeper and the treble extension higher (I guess similar to the tweetertone control), put a narrow Q cut at 1K and a slight, wide Q boost at 250 hz, and then 'bake that' into the amp. That would then be the 'flat/neutral' EQ voicing of the amp, prior to adjusting any of the on-board EQ knobs.
K
Click to expand...

Now we're talking...this voicing control is what I've been waiting for since this thread started. Continually amazed at what they've been able to do with this little amp.
 
#392
Rick Auricchio said:
Two amazing things: First, that they have built an amp so flexible; and second, that Uffe is letting our intrepid testers have at it.

Uffe and his colleagues should be proud: They've built an amp so good that the guys have come up with very few tweaks!
Click to expand...

+1 I'm on the road gigging for the rest of the weekend, but I assume Uffe will get back to me to clarify a few things, and I'll put the new software through its paces Monday/Tuesday, and possibly post up a clip.
 
#394
Hi chaps

So far im really enjoying changing the parameters! I havent gigged them with the changes as yet, but plenty of rehearsals.

I realise some users may not require all these extras for the RH450, but personally I think if TC release this as an option to use with the RH450, them it would attract those who really like to tweak. Ultimate flexibility!

Ive been attempting to try and match the Staccato 51' (as close as I can) with what Ive heard about it and the test I had with one for a while in a store. All good fun :)

I never once though 2-3 years ago that amps would come this far and sound this good in such a small slick package.

Thanks
 
#395
The only thing I'd be interested in is the tool itself. I would be interested in tweaking the compression and q settings for some of the EQ bands.

Obviously, the Staccato is just a revoiced and differently cased RH-450. I can definitely see that this is a blessing/curse tool. In the hands of someone who knows how to voice a track/amp, the controls are powerful and desirable. In the hands of someone who doesn't understand the conceptual basis of the voicing versus basic amp power, the worst-case scenario is someone hears that person playing a badly-voiced RH-450, and thinks the amp is a dog.

But, my two cents is this: A very easy "factory reset" voicing would not be that hard to implement with a boot-up button combo (who knows...it's probably already there). My inclination would be to recommend cleaning up the software and releasing it. I don't see a negative value proposition in either direction. More is better.

Unless there is a super compelling reason against it, opening up the technology in software is the right thing to do.

Ironically, the moment I read about the Staccato, I figured there was some kind of software app that was used to voice a stock RH-450. Reading between the lines, it was all right there...

EDIT: By the way, I am an extremely happy RH-450 owner. As good as the reviews are, once you've had the amp a while and have learned to gainstage it internally between the input/compression/patch gain/tubetone/master, the entire tonal range really opens up. It's misleading at first, because the amp ships fairly "hot" and the secret to getting the most flexibility is to open up some headroom on the input AND the preset gain, so that the compression/tubetone have more variability.
 
#396
BruceRichardson said:
<SNIP>
EDIT: By the way, I am an extremely happy RH-450 owner. As good as the reviews are, once you've had the amp a while and have learned to gainstage it internally between the input/compression/patch gain/tubetone/master, the entire tonal range really opens up. It's misleading at first, because the amp ships fairly "hot" and the secret to getting the most flexibility is to open up some headroom on the input AND the preset gain, so that the compression/tubetone have more variability.
Click to expand...

You've said a mouthful: for my money, this topic deserves its own thread.
 
#397
BruceRichardson said:
Ironically, the moment I read about the Staccato, I figured there was some kind of software app that was used to voice a stock RH-450. Reading between the lines, it was all right there...
Click to expand...



Not sure about the 'ironically' statement. TC basically included this information in the marketing release of the Staccato product, and also provided the exact tweaks that were done to the TB community within weeks of introduction (through a retailer who is also a TB member.... pretty cool). It was not only obvious, but explicitely stated by the company, which is very cool (very transparent).

The tweaking software that was provided to us is just a 'trial balloon' to kind of parse out the functions that might be useful (if any) to a 'typical user'. My feeling is (as we've stated a while back) that with the addition of the tweetertone knob (the variable lo pass filter that is already in the new combo feature set), there is not much else needed to 'improve' this amp.

The most recent software update that was provided to us contains a significant percentage of the software that was used to change the RH450 into the Staccato. Pretty cool... but quite frankly, except for the variable hi pass, I can get 90% there by just varying the on-board EQ.

Also, +1... lots of sound in the various interaction of the gain stages, etc.

Cool stuff... GREAT company... great amp!
 
#398
It was not only obvious, but explicitely stated by the company
Click to expand...

Ha!! Well, I'm new to the amp as of a couple of weeks, so I am totally late to the party.

Here's what I'd be likely to try, if these parameters were exposed.

1) If there's a highpass filter and slope, I'd experiment with setting it a bit above 31 Hz, then seeing how much the bass control effects what's coming through. If the highpass is pre-EQ, that could conceivably make the bottom compression band behave a little better.

2) I'd narrow up the mid-bass Q just a hair.

3) I'd increase the low-band compressor's attack time by about 10-20 ms, depending on where it is set at present.

(I actually like the lowpass/tweeter setting. I'm not much on pingy-top.)

Cheers,
B.
 
#399
Another thing I would try:

I like Bag End sealed cabs (elf/infra). I use them in the studio as subs, and have four S18E cabs and two S12E cabs, along with an S15D and a D10BX.

One of the things I'd personally experiment with is voicing the two low-frequency bands to pull off the "elf trick" by using the low shelf to get the 12 dB boost, then using the midbass to tame the hump...a poor man's dual integrator.

I have a couple of very successful settings already...if I make a stack out of the two S12Es, it is an excellent little jazz/club stack that really punches and has lots of low-lows.

It's pretty cool that the RH450 is essentially a virtually voiced amp. I must say I'm somewhat jealous of the toolset you guys are seeing, because I see definite uses for it. I'm sure from TC's call it's a near impossibility to productize that, for the obvious reasons. People could make the amp sound like absolute ass very easily, more easily than making it sound better I'd say.
 
#400
BruceRichardson said:
EDIT: By the way, I am an extremely happy RH-450 owner. As good as the reviews are, once you've had the amp a while and have learned to gainstage it internally between the input/compression/patch gain/tubetone/master, the entire tonal range really opens up. It's misleading at first, because the amp ships fairly "hot" and the secret to getting the most flexibility is to open up some headroom on the input AND the preset gain, so that the compression/tubetone have more variability.
Click to expand...

Hey. I bow to your infinite knowledge! Can you expand on this a little bit? Do you mean to dial down the input and the preset gain, so you can crank up the master, to get more of a "gain stage" tube amp effect?
 

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