TC Electronics RebelHead 450 - Rebel with a Cause

[David Wilson]

I used mine last night with Berg AE410. I used Markbass LM II for first set, RH450 for second and third ones. Used Lakland Daryl Jones Skyline 5 for all three sets.

For reference I usually use the LM II with a small bass boost, and 20% or so high end cut using the VLE. On RH450, bass was boosted 25-30%, I cut high mids slightly and treble slightly. Tube tone was anywhere between 25% and 50% depending on whether I wanted overdriven sound or just to fill out the low end for more of a 'classic' sound.

I like it a lot, but I'm not sure if it's a keeper or not. The overall package is excellent - programmable memories / tube sim / tuner - but to echo Mingus Bassist the amp sounds really good but not outstanding. I haven't tweaked the eq bands / comp levels etc, those are cool features for sure but I don't see me using them too much.

 

[Smallequestrian]

Just skimmed their spec and also noted their 22 kilo to 44 pound conversion. Seems to me that would be more like 48.4 pounds. Looking forward to seeing if they update specs now that retailers are getting product, and prototype and trade show period behind them.

Wow, that's pretty lazy and easy enough to get right the first time. Of course I guess I could have noticed the error myself first

 

[TheButler]

...sounds really good but not outstanding.

Can you honestly say the MB sounds outstanding though? In fact, what amps in this price bracket, size/weight really sound outstanding? Genuine question, i'm in the market.

 

[lowstar]

I just used one at a gig. It was the back-line at Arlene's Grocery

wow, say, you mean Arlene´s Grocery in NYC ? that place still exists ? i played a gig there back in 97 (if you´re from europe, like me, that is something to remember ). that brings back strong memories...
i remember they had a female "doorwoman" who was wearing a russian-style bear-fur-cap (it was november).

sorry for derailing the thread for a second

cheers,
lowstar

 

[JimmyM]

Can you honestly say the MB sounds outstanding though? In fact, what amps in this price bracket, size/weight really sound outstanding? Genuine question, i'm in the market.

I can honestly say that even though I haven't tried every single SS or hybrid head ever made, I've tried a lot, and I'd take a Markbass over any of them. I'm back to old Ampeg tube amps, but the LMII's as close to it as I've ever heard in an SS or hybrid.

 

[David Wilson]

Can you honestly say the MB sounds outstanding though? In fact, what amps in this price bracket, size/weight really sound outstanding? Genuine question, i'm in the market.

It's a perfectly reasonable question. So, let me explain where I'm coming from.

I do remember saying 'wow' when I heard the LM II for the first time, because it was the first high powered, light weight, relatively low cost head I'd heard that sounded great.

Having said that, the price certainly comes into it. If the LM II cost $1000 I would have had a different reaction. Since then, other light weight heads have come out and I've tried a good few of them.

Other lightweight heads I've tried in the sub $1K range. Genz Benz Shuttle 6, Carvin BX500, GK MB2500. The Shuttle just wasn't the sound I was looking for. The BX500 is certainly a 'wow' from a bang for the buck perspective ($400), it sounds good also but I don't know if I'd use it as my primary head. The GK is probably the other one that made me say 'wow', probably a reaction to an amp so small being so loud

In terms of bells and whistles, the RH450 certainly has enough to justify a higher price than the LM II (RMC Audio Direct have the best price I've seen, by the way) but if I'm not going to use many of them then they're of little value for my needs and therefore the amp needs to sound that much better than the LM for me to consider it providing similar value. It took me tweaking to get a sound I like, vs the LM II which sounded great with all settings flat. I prefer amps or basses to sound like how I want them to sound with eq flat, and then use the eq to adjust to taste - rather than having to adjust right off the bat to get my sound.

Like I said, it's a great little amp - there's nothing wrong with it - and I might well still end up keeping it. I do have to do some more tweaking though, it's certainly possible that maybe I can get the sound I want with eq flat and adjusting tubetone and then small eq changes to fine tune rather than eqing first and then adding tubetone. I'll try that out.

 

[KJung]

Can you honestly say the MB sounds outstanding though? In fact, what amps in this price bracket, size/weight really sound outstanding? Genuine question, i'm in the market.

Yes. Completely! If you like it loud, clean, transparent and still musical, it's the best price to volume to tone to quality product I've ever experienced. The updated LMIII looks to be even better, with a few tweaks including a new power amp limiting design for more open volume, and an increased feature set.

I actually was hesitant to buy one because the price is so low (I had a Glockenklang and a Walter Woods at the the time). They are both gone, the LMII, F1 and more recently the TecAmp Puma (REALLY nice, but twice the cost) remain

I try virtually all of these micro heads (I've been a micro head user since the late 80's with my Walters), and there are quite a few very nice ones out there now... the AI stuff if you like it warm and fat and organic, the MB stuff for a more modern, wide, tone, the Genz stuff, the TecAmp Puma line. So far, the TC stuff seems to be getting lukewarm reviews, and nothing in the feature set peaks my interest personally (the lower than average category power rating, the compressor that is always on and driven by the input gain level, the 'fake tube emulation thing, etc., etc.). However, even given the lukewarm reviews, I look forward to trying the head, at least sometime!

 

[greenboy]

However, even given the lukewarm reviews

Hasn't it got some good ones too?

I look forward to trying the head, at least sometime!

Yep. If I was in the market I'd give it a real trial because when I read the reviews I have to wonder about the reviewers just as much as I do the gear. Seems like so many come to the table with biases in one direction or another. Trust issues I suppose ; }

 

[KJung]

Hasn't it got some good ones too?



Yep. If I was in the market I'd give it a real trial because when I read the reviews I have to wonder about the reviewers just as much as I do the gear. Seems like so many come to the table with biases in one direction or another. Trust issues I suppose ; }

I've learned that reading TB reviews is a bit like reading those Bass Player reviews. Raving about a product means it's at least a contender. Saying it's 'nice' usually means it's pretty lame!

On TB, a zillion reviews by guys completely raving about how a piece of gear 'totally kicks **s' suggests to me that it is at least 'pretty good'! However a majority of reviews from guys who were given the product for free (at least most of them at this point) that basically say, one after the other 'it's nice... I could use it.... it was plenty loud... or 'it sounded good but I was looking for more with the B string', etc., etc., etc. suggests a pretty average product (or worse) to me.

I don't think this company has any experience in bass amplification, and as we know, bass backline is a very different thing from effects or PA speakers IMO.

I will again look forward to trying, but I don't have a lot of hope that this stuff will stack up to the competition at this point.

Lot's of hype created by their advertising and PR company. That is impressive actually. I've never seen so much buzz around a bass amplification product! I agree that all the hype of their marketing campaign set possibly unreasonable expectations for this product, but that's marketing 101. Sometimes, it's a bit better to take a little softer approach. One of the worst things that you can do when introducing a new product (which is a large part of my day job) is set up very high expectations that the product can't meet. That's what is called a 'brand killer', at least in the sub-category the product is competing in.

 

[Jackbass]

I tried one yesterday in Paris, with a Sandberg California JM 5 and I wasn't impressed at all. The sound is good features are interesting but I was not seduced. Compared to a Markbass F1 wich is more powerfull, lighter and less expansive, I am not sure about the success on this head on the market.

In fact I would prefer TC to make bass effects...

 

[seamonkey]

I tried one yesterday in Paris, with a Sandberg California JM 5 and I wasn't impressed at all. The sound is good features are interesting but I was not seduced. Compared to a Markbass F1 wich is more powerfull, lighter and less expansive, I am not sure about the success on this head on the market.

In fact I would prefer TC to make bass effects...

Sounds like a tried in a store review. I've read too many to take seriously. Instant gratification in sound isn't always the best.

TC did make bass effects here. They just added a amplifier for convenience.

 

[Jackbass]

You are right but I was alone in the shop with good acoustic conditions.

 

[KJung]

Sounds like a tried in a store review. I've read too many to take seriously. Instant gratification in sound isn't always the best.

TC did make bass effects here. They just added a amplifier for convenience.

This continues to be the strangest dynamic for a new product introduction I've ever seen. First, huge hype by the overwhelming marketing campaign. Then, lot's of excitement by those who are familiar with the company from a PA and effects perspective. Next, trial, and again, from what I see, disappointment in general. Finally, those who like the company for other reasons but have never heard the bass rig telling all the people who tried the gear that their opinions are useless.

This is one for the Harvard Business Review (or maybe Psychology Today!)

 

[JimmyM]

They did manage to snag a pretty hi-profile endorser, and really, endorsers are what sell amps. People will take it more seriously with Bailey endorsing, that's for sure.

But yeah, other than that, this has been a pretty bad product launch. Too splashy and undignified.

 

[jdwinva]

I've owned an LMII and now the RH450 and they are really two completely different sounds. The RH450 is more rock than the LMII IMHO. The LMII excels in the tranparent clean tone category. The RH450 excels in the - I want an SVT sound or a really great slap sound and a cool punchy finger style sound. If I were only playing jazz & R&B the LMII would be my choice. I play jazz, rock, and R&B.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

They did manage to snag a pretty hi-profile endorser, and really, endorsers are what sell amps. People will take it more seriously with Bailey endorsing, that's for sure.

But yeah, other than that, this has been a pretty bad product launch. Too splashy and undignified.

Yeah, I was thinking the Steve Bailey was a good endorsement. But then I was also thinking, or actually trying to think of one song that he plays. I can't.

I was about a block away from one this past week but didn't feel the need to go out of my way to try it.

 

[meekee73_2008]

I've owned an LMII and now the RH450 and they are really two completely different sounds. The RH450 is more rock than the LMII IMHO. The LMII excels in the tranparent clean tone category. The RH450 excels in the - I want an SVT sound or a really great slap sound and a cool punchy finger style sound. If I were only playing jazz & R&B the LMII would be my choice. I play jazz, rock, and R&B.

my two cents here: IMVHO "I want an SVT sound or a really great slap sound " are two completely different things.

i'm an owner of both rh450 and rs 212 cabinet: i think that they sound very warm but, as i stated in another thread, they sound not so "hard-rockin".

example: friday i tried MB P501 with an ATS cabinet (speaking of italian brands...lot of people round here know MB but few of them i think know the quality of ATS) and the sound was very hard, responsive and "slappy"...even if it's not my sound 'cause i prefere a warmer sound.

my feel is that, with rh450 you can't get that sound, maybe you'll able to get close to a tube sound but that's a completely different story.


Michele

 

[lowstar]

This continues to be the strangest dynamic for a new product introduction I've ever seen. First, huge hype by the overwhelming marketing campaign. Then, lot's of excitement by those who are familiar with the company from a PA and effects perspective. Next, trial, and again, from what I see, disappointment in general. Finally, those who like the company for other reasons but have never heard the bass rig telling all the people who tried the gear that their opinions are useless.

This is one for the Harvard Business Review (or maybe Psychology Today!)

+1

even bigger than the mark bass hype was *ggg*

cheers,
lowstar

 

[KJung]

+1

even bigger than the mark bass hype was *ggg*

cheers,
lowstar

+1 As many have discussed, the MB hype was not hype using the true definition of hype. That was a user/buyer generated groundswell of amazement given the performance to price and size ratio of basically one amp in the MB line-up (with sales and user satisfaction to match).

I still remember the first time we had an LMII at one of our many GTG's! It was quite something, even compared to the Walter Woods, the Thunderfunks, the Eden's, the Heartrock, and other heads that we had present. Of course, some liked the tone better than others like with any piece of gear, but there was general amazement at the entire package compared to what was out there 2 years ago!

This, on the other hand, is the textbook definition of 'hype'... i.e., marketing and PR driven buzz. Of course, if the product lives up to this more true definition of 'hype', then the ad agency and PR firm get themselves on the cover of Ad Age

 

[bassthumpa]

+1 As many have discussed, the MB hype was not hype using the true definition of hype. That was a user/buyer generated groundswell of amazement given the performance to price and size ratio of basically one amp in the MB line-up (with sales and user satisfaction to match).

I still remember the first time we had an LMII at one of our many GTG's! It was quite something, even compared to the Walter Woods, the Thunderfunks, the Eden's, the Heartrock, and other heads that we had present. Of course, some liked the tone better than others like with any piece of gear, but there was general amazement at the entire package compared to what was out there 2 years ago!

This, on the other hand, is the textbook definition of 'hype'... i.e., marketing and PR driven buzz. Of course, if the product lives up to this more true definition of 'hype', then the ad agency and PR firm get themselves on the cover of Ad Age

+1

There is indeed a big difference between user generated hype and corporate generated hype. This has definitely been the latter, regardless of whether the product is liked or not.