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Teach Chords or Scales first?

#61
OOD said:
It's a Great way to do it, but it can be right in a different order. For example, there is nothing wrong with learning much of the basics on paper before even touching an instrument. Some people would learn it better that way.
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I agree, but learning the basics is still learning the basics. Whether it is on paper, or verbally or Vulcan mind meld. If a student doesn't have the most rudimentary of concepts and terminology learned, and in a proper order, you will have a confused student.
 
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#65
Rmackner said:
Never understood what was so confusing about modes for people. In very simple terms its just following a different root of the major scale of whatever key your in.
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Maybe some people work on the major scale for so long that they find modes strange. That's the only theory I can come up with.
 
#67
OOD said:
Maybe some people work on the major scale for so long that they find modes strange. That's the only theory I can come up with.
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Yea it's very strange how some people really over think things. If i'm in c major and someone plays a Am chord I just start the c major scale from the a note (and now it's my root note that I follow) and bang now i'm playing aeolian. Then someone throws me a e minor chord and now I start from the E within the c major scale and bang now i'm playing phrygian mode. Crap even playing the pent and following the root note of each chord change but still playing within the pent that the key is just like playing modes. I think once people grasp this about music and understand what people really mean when they say "all western music is built off the major scale" it really opens doors on how simple music theory can be.
 
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#68
OOD said:
What do you think the best method for teaching modes is? Most musicians I meet don't know what a mode is and that's including the ones who took lessons.
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Modes are just names given to scales formed from starting on different scale steps of the original or "mother" scale. Once the student has a strong grasp of... the major scale, minor scale, and melodic minor scale. And also, scale harmonization and chord/arpeggio construction has been learned. Then you can bring in the concept of modes.
 
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#69
Rmackner said:
.... I think once people grasp this about music and understand what people really mean when they say "all western music is built off the major scale" it really opens doors on how simple music theory can be.
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Yes. It isn't rocket appliances. If you are taught the basics, in a proper order of things, the more complex concepts in music theory are not hard to learn at all.
 
#70
SO maybe starting with the major scale and the idea that once you learn the c major scale all you need to do is change the root and your in a different key. It seems like most people who don't understand theory don't realize that once you learn something all you need to do is change the root and your in a different key. You could spend your whole life studying only the c major scale and all the chords within the key and never even heard another another song in another key other the C. Then someone says they have a song in G major and all you need to do is replace the C ionian scale with the the root of G and now everything you every studied in C major is now in G major.
 
#73
Schlyder said:
Modes are just names given to scales formed from starting on different scale steps of the original or "mother" scale. Once the student has a strong grasp of... the major scale, minor scale, and melodic minor scale. And also, scale harmonization and chord/arpeggio construction has been learned. Then you can bring in the concept of modes.
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If you teach the major (ionian mode) and minor scale (i assume you mean natural minor thats aeolian mode) you kinda are teach modes anyway. It's best to start with the idea that every scale is built off the major scale and by following the root note of the chord changes within the major scale of the key your in, your playing modes. Then play the modes over a drone bass note to hear the flavor each mode can offer.
 
#75
Rmackner said:
I hate when people say this. If you play something on a musical instrument and it sounds good to you and other peoples ears then your playing something that can be explained by theory. All you did was learn by ear and not by words.
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You're right.
I learned it this way by listenig to records:
Ahh, 1st dot on the fat string, 5th dot on the 2nd string, uhh, once again and then stay between the 5th and 7th dot on the fat string, what to do with strings 3+4.....:woot:
 
#76
Teach basics first---- open strings and where the notes are on the page in relation to the instrument

Then scales (start with major, every one recognizes the major scale when you sing do, re, mi, ........-- both of these things will help to develop the mechanics of the instrument as well as "general music skills"

Then intervals, then chords, then altered scales and chords
 
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#77
Most beginner level music theory courses are taught to young folks who already play an instrument. As in, you start playing trumpet or violin in 3rd grade and in 8th or 9th grade you elect to take music theory. Most of those students will likely come in with some knowledge of notation, scales and chords. This information needs to be reviewed and renforced before moving forward. There are many books available to design a lesson plan around.

It is very rare that a student would want to learn music theory without playing an instrument or singing. In that case the most common place to start is piano or vocal lessons.

If you have a unqiue situation where you are teaching music theory to someone with no understanding of notes, scales and chords I'd be interested in hearing more about it before passing judgement.
 
#78
i agree with the piano keyboard being a good thing to look at .. ! but i've played piano for 50+ yrs ...

i'd also agree with simple finger exercises ... which should lead to scales ... which will give more strength and dexterity for playing chords ... chords should be learned/memorized ... i would think younger beginners might have trouble with 'this part of this scale in this key , goes with this chord ' ... !?

and strumming chords is good for rhythmic studies ...

or if they learn the 5 basic minor Penta patterns .. there's only a few notes left to fill in for major/natural minor scales .. !
 
#79
DavC said:
i agree with the piano keyboard being a good thing to look at .. ! but i've played piano for 50+ yrs ...

i'd also agree with simple finger exercises ... which should lead to scales ... which will give more strength and dexterity for playing chords ... chords should be learned/memorized ... i would think younger beginners might have trouble with 'this part of this scale in this key , goes with this chord ' ... !?

and strumming chords is good for rhythmic studies ...

or if they learn the 5 basic minor Penta patterns .. there's only a few notes left to fill in for major/natural minor scales .. !
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But at that point are you teach the basics of the electric bass / guitar or the basics of music theory that can be applied to any instrument.
 
#80
Rmackner said:
I hate when people say this. If you play something on a musical instrument and it sounds good to you and other peoples ears then your playing something that can be explained by theory. All you did was learn by ear and not by words.
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Doncha no all that fancy pants book lernin' will just screw you up???

Nothing brings out creativity better than total ignorance.

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