Double Bass Teaching Someone Who Does Not Read Music

[bass81800]

Would appreciate any ideas on this. I received a call from someone who said they had purchased a family member's bass that had been sitting in a living room not played, and he wants to take lessons. He's an older guy who loves jazz, also plays some guitar, but when I asked some more questions, he said he just plays by ear.

I do my share of playing by ear, but I was also grounded in Simandl and years of piano lessons before that, so lessons with reading music and charts were the norm for me. He does not have any interest in learning to read music. Good thing is that he does have a bow. I am, by no ways, a pro teacher. I have just had a few students along the way. It may just end up being a situation where I just show him the basics and that will be enough for him, but I was curious how some of you more experienced teachers would approach teaching someone who does not read music.

 

[FatBoutedGirls]

The non music reading friends I know benefit most from technique training. They are generally decent at picking out what they want to play, it's just getting adjusted to the instrument and avoiding injurious playing styles.

 

[Robus]

If he doesn't want to learn to read, what's the issue here?

 

[Shimmi]

When my gf back in the day taught me she just asked what songs I liked, printed tabs from online and taught me how to play it. She also taught me blues scales and a few plucking techniques that got me started, as well as some things to practice to strengthen fingers(I know what am I 10? lol ). I'm still Amateur but that lil bit helped me in the beginning and biggest thing she told me was practice practice practice, and that once I could play along to songs on radio I could play anything. So if he doesn't want to read music maybe go that route? Like teach him to play tabs and show him a few jazz tracks

 

[bass81800]

Some very good ideas here. Yes, first is good technique so he does not injure himself. Blues scale, yes, and remembering my teacher had me learn a simple blues tunes. Sure he will have a few tunes he will want to learn as well. If he knows guitar, hopefully he grasps the concept of chord construction. Will see.

 

[Steve Freides]

I don't take students who don't want to learn to read and you don't have to, either. I will do my best to help them find another teacher if they want me to do that.

-S-

 

[Jeff Bonny]

I guess if reading truly is integral to your teaching method it's fair enough to decline an adult student who doesn't want to read. Seems though that if you have something personal that's worth imparting you often simply show an adult student anyway. Take away reading and you still have music. Take away the oral tradition and you got nuthin'. I'd also note that declining out of hand an adult initially not interested in reading might be somewhat short sighted and even a little self serving. It's not like basic method books take a ton of reading chops and it doesn't take much subtle good natured coercion for many students to see the benefit and relative ease of having access to the information.

 

[Steve Freides]

Jeff, my interest and my joy in teaching is in giving my students the skills to learn new music without me. I teach a student to fish, not hand them a meal. The world is full of teachers besides me and I have a full calendar each week.

-S-

 

[neilG]

I wouldn't have a problem teaching someone who didn't want to learn to read. Imagine if you had a blind student.

 

[Tom Lane]

I'm not very experienced but I've taught since I was in high school, occasionally. I recently had a similar student who had no interest in improving his reading and just wanted me to help him improve learning tunes by ear. His interest was some blues, classic pop, and light jazz and I found it pretty easy feeding him bass lines a phrase at a time. He was quite quick at hearing it and playing it. Most of his issue was not being able to isolate the bass lines of the tunes he wanted to learn, and once I helped him with that, it as all about technique and the physicality of the instrument. He already had pretty good time. His intonation was off and probably still is sometimes, but I'm not sure he wants to spend the hours necessary at his age to perfect his intonation. Personally, I was glad to be able to help him enjoy music more.

 

[Steve Freides]

I wouldn't say yes to a request to build his kitchen cabinets, either - neither is what I do. Where I live, metro NYC, there are many, many bass teachers and I'm sure such a student would have no trouble finding someone besides me. I'm not trying to be condescending - the fact that I play the instrument you want to learn to play doesn't necessarily mean I'm a good teacher for you, and why would I take on a student when I know they can be better served by someone else?

That said, Tom, this: "His intonation was off and probably still is sometimes, but I'm not sure he wants to spend the hours necessary at his age to perfect his intonation" really raises my bushy eyebrows. I spend a lot of time playing with my students so that they'll have proper intonation in their ears and in their fingers, and my goal is to have them notice, and fix, out of tune playing when they're not around me. Nobody says his intonation has to be perfect, but, IMHO, you do always have to try to play in tune.

Jeff, this: "Seems though that if you have something personal that's worth imparting you often simply show an adult student anyway" also causes my head to tilt. I have things I think are worth imparting, but I don't think I'm the only person who can teach any one student. I'm part of a long line of music teachers and players that would have gone on without me had I not been around. (Cue: "Tradition" from "Fiddler on the Roof" here.)

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

-S-

 

[MrLenny1]

Scales & proper fingering will really help him.

 

[Shimmi]

Just show him cat scratch fever and be done with it... LOL jk

 

[Der Kontrabass]

If he loves jazz, nothing could be simpler than teaching him how to read quarter note walking lines. I bet that you could have him reading walking lines in F in four lessons. FWIW, I teach kids who cannot read (music or text). Your job will be a walk in the park by comparison (unless, of course, he too periodically squiggles on the floor and has more fun playing with your metronome than playing bass).

 

[Tom Lane]

That said, Tom, this: "His intonation was off and probably still is sometimes, but I'm not sure he wants to spend the hours necessary at his age to perfect his intonation" really raises my bushy eyebrows. I spend a lot of time playing with my students so that they'll have proper intonation in their ears and in their fingers, and my goal is to have them notice, and fix, out of tune playing when they're not around me. Nobody says his intonation has to be perfect, but, IMHO, you do always have to try to play in tune.

Ordinarily, I'd just let this go, but since you quoted me and you're sounding pretty self-righteous which summoned my frowny-face:

I aim to master the bass and encourage my occasional students to as well. I don't teach kids and instead recommend the established pros in the area to them, but with the older folks who've been rejected by teachers like yourself, I do my best to help them fulfill their goals. I don't do it for the money but just to give back because I've had some great teachers and I hope to propagate their wisdom. I think the more people we have involved music, the better. I'm pretty clear with them about what it takes to learn to master the upright, but for most of them, that's just not their goal. Maybe someday, now that they know, they'll change their mind and bear down, but for the moment they want to have fun playing weekly at the retirement center or entertaining themselves in the evenings. Do you think their goals are less worthwhile than your students? It sounds as though you do and I don't think I agree.

One last question, how are your posts related to the OPs question? I believe he was asking for advice on how to teach a student who didn't want to learn to read music, or did I misread it?

 

[Steve Freides]

Tom,

I respect but don't endorse your point of view.

You're entitled to call me self-righteous and whatever else you wish but I don't see the point. I could make a list of exactly how I feel about some of the points you made, too, but I will refrain from doing so.

Do what you like, but you can't ask me to call it good double bass teaching just because you think it is - we disagree.

My advice about how to teach in this situation was to refer it to someone else, and I stand by that advice. If you don't think my advice relates to his question, there's nothing I can do about that.

-S-

 

[Tom Lane]

We agree on one thing: you don't see the point. Let's move on; we're not contributing anything to the conversation.

 

[David Potts]

Going back to the OP's question I have never faced his situation so what follows is my gut reaction.

I would feel duty-bound to explain that being able to use the bow and read simple notes and symbols (some simple theory) as used in Simandl will help you communicate about music and technique with him, making it both easier to teach and learn. The bow will produce long sounds that will help center his intonation. Being able to read music even a little will help him join groups and have the most enjoyment of music from playing with others.

But, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink".

Best wishes, DP

 

[Anonymatt]

How about this, if you're going to teach him a lick, a scale, whatever, teach him aurally, but go ahead and write out the music. Just tell him it's a visual aid. It probably would aid his memory to have something to hang the sounds on. Don't make him read or have any expectations, just keep the music around. Notation's pretty logical, so he may come around to the music and decide it's not going to be such a drag. Let him discover the function of notation naturally without pressuring him.
Also, he probably knows a thing or two about notation, maybe enough to have scared him away because of previous experience that caused anxiety. Take away the anxiety and you might cause him to use his existing knowledge to put it together.

I've learned to read pretty well, and now I think my aural learning is certainly deficient!

 

[sean_on_bass]

This makes me feel lucky that i was taught to read in middle school! I would think at the very least he would need to learn the names of the notes, and how to construct chords and scales in any key. He could then at least read chord symbols and read a chart, but that is still reading in a way. Still has to learn some notation(time sigs, keys, bar length, etc) If he is against that, then i would try to persuade him otherwise.