Sounds like a challenge!
With boxes of the same family, like what we're discussing here with programmable BDDI and a BDDI v2, I feel pretty confident my eyes could pull it off.
Who wants to send me a couple for testing?
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Sounds like a challenge!
With boxes of the same family, like what we're discussing here with programmable BDDI and a BDDI v2, I feel pretty confident my eyes could pull it off.
Who wants to send me a couple for testing?
Hopefully with a little bit of A/B testing you’d be able to get the new BDDI to where you’d want it using just your ears – or just find a new tone you like!
I surely will. IMO the BDDI does a good job, and as long as you don't mess radically with the settings, the output will always be a good, usable one. That's why I dig the Sansamps so much.
It's just that I've grown used to my signal chain with the Programmable BDDI last before an Ampeg PF50-T
where the output transformer DI is used to send the signal to FOH and the cab acts as stage monitor to compliment IEM. Using two preamps in a row can entail that small changes in the character of the signal have a bigger impact on the result - which I'm wrestling with at the moment.
I may do a poor job explaining this, but if you run a BDDI with no blend, you essentially have a flat boost box with bass and treble EQ available. As you turn the blend up you introduce the Sans Amp voicing circuit mixed with your original signal. At 100% blend, you are only getting the Sans Amp voicing circuit which is designed with mid scoop. As the Sans Amp circuitry is introduced the Drive and Presence controls now become active as well.
If you want more mids, you can turn down the bass and treble and increase the Level control (straight gain) to make-up the volume loss. This will reduce the amount of bass and treble frequencies while passing more mids and basically giving you a tone that is more mid focused/present. The other trick is to back off on the blend and allow more of your own bass signal to be present. Assuming you haven't dialed in a mid scoop on your bass or some other pedal, you will get a higher mid content. So you reduce the blend to about 50%, turn down bass and treble controls, use the Level control to recover volume as needed and you get more mids in your sound.
The Drive and Presence controls shape the character of the Sans Amp Circuit effect. While Presence will enhance some higher frequency content, it seems a bit more complex than that and in frequency plots I've seen actually alters the harmonics as well. The Drive control pretty much determines the degree of overdrive you're getting (just like in an amp) and along with the Presence control let's you shape the kind of amp/cab emulation you're getting.
One last point that is essential to keep in mind is that the Sans Amp was designed to be exactly that - no amp! When used to go direct to a mixer it works really well and the lack of mids deal is not at all extreme, it is simply part of the tone and sounds like a mic'ed cab. When folks started using it as a pedal in front of an amp and cab (that frequently produce a mid scooped tone), they got a double mid scoop effect. This is where you need to be creative with your EQ controls and recognize that doubling "a good thing", isn't always a great thing!
I hope that helps...the Tech 21 guys would have probably explained it better.
So what you're saying (in a nutshell) is that the BDDI versions with no mid pot have a touch of midscoop.
When the v2 with the mids at noon is running flat, that could be the difference.
I never assumed that the BDDI really scoops mids because I always found the bass sitting well in the mix with good audibility and the rule of thumb is, that the mids make you audible.
Again, it's all relative! Scooping mids is like seasoning food. Season too much, and you ruin whatever you’re cooking.
That doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t season though – season too little, and things can taste bland.
The old rule of thumb that states that mids help you be heard and cut through is true, but IMO in most use cases the tones that are being discussed are typically just different shades of scooped, and are based off of the frequencies that our ear structure and brain accentuate when it comes to perceiving tone.
I’m not saying that there aren’t those that might end up with a combined end-signal* that sounds truly flat, or even mid-centric and like it (weirdos
), but I’d bet that for most players, that type of tone wouldn’t be their cup of tea. 
*That end signal includes the entire tonal chain - attack position, attack style, string characteristics, pickup position, pickup style, instrument settings, amp settings, cab tuning etc... and volume! Amp/preamp setting positions alone are a very poor indicator of overall tone profile.
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I’m not saying that there aren’t those that might end up with a combined end-signal that’s truly flat, or even mid-centric and like it (weirdos
I used to play in a rock band where I was constantly struggling to keep up with the sheer volume of the lead guitar. It was a decent guy, but he made the mistake of buying an Egnater head with his last money. His only cab was a Marshall 412 and the only setting on that amp that made the guitar sound good was ear splitting.
For quite some time, I came into rehearsal, plugged in, started playing and found my tone awful. I EQed it to taste and we would begin. I could not hear myself properly and made a few minor changes throughout the rehearsal until I was satisfied.
The next rehearsal, I plugged in, started playing and found my tone awful.
The reason here was mids. I boosted them to get through the mix and sounded fine then, but without a drumkit and guitar, the bass alone sounded terrible.
However, I just pulled my Nano board apart and rearranged it completely.
The old chain was tuner -> comp -> reverb -> BDDI.
The new chain is tuner -> BDDI -> comp -> reverb.
By doing this, I lost the ability to use that board as a standalone without amp.
I reasoned that I play one or two gigs a year without bringing an amp, and at least one of them has a DI box on stage for me. For the other one, I can either rig another board with my Programmable BDDI or just rearrange to the old order.
A bit of mid scooping on the v2 really did the trick to find a tone that suits me.
I set up the comp to do some hard limiting and raised the drive on the Sansamp. Now I have a touch sensitive always on overdrive. I set the drive so that at normal playing, I am just beneath overdrive and the level so that this exact point is where the comp is triggered. So when I dig in, I get no increase in volume, but an increase in overdrive. Why have I never thought of this earlier? What a beauty it is!
Al Kraft
Supporting Member
- May 2, 2016
- 10,768
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To the best of my knowledge all BDDI versions have that mid scoop when you engage the Blend (the Sans Amp circuit is emulating a mid scooped amp/cab tone). The BDDI V2 has a mid control (with selectable filter center frequency) and IIRC is actually a little less mid scooped (with bass, mid, and treble EQ at noon and the blend on full) than the previous version on top of now being able to address mid EQ directly. I also find the BDDI V2 to have a smoother/more usable pot taper on the Presence control and it feels a little thicker/creamier in the lows. I own both the BDDI V2 and the previous version.
shot and a beer
two jealous girlfriends (or wife and ...)
country and western
Words of wisdumb!
Note to el murdoque: that is how J. Mascis sets up his effects, using a OD as the volume control with fuzz before it ... I do it on my guitar rig and it works a treat.
Yeah, I tried that with low gain overdrives in the past, but always ran into the problem that the saturation was coming too late. I play active basses and my amps don't work like guitar amps where you can dial back on the volume of the guitar to back off into cleaner territory without sacrificing too much volume.
All I achieved was a sound that was a bit dirty'ish at normal playing and when I dug in, THE VOLUME WAS GETTING WAY OUT OF HAND.
It is not unusual that a bass tone that sounds good in the mix doesn't when soloed.
Has anyone who uses an RBI, RPM, or a GED-2112 used it's D.I. into a board on a gig with P.A. support? And how did the person running sound like it?
I'm still in the learning stage with my GED-2112. I've typically had very few gigs with P.A. support, but with the band I'm in now, I'm most likely to be ran into a P.A. when we play summer festivals.
I've found Sound folks typically prefer a no-hassle approach to the bass. Most have had me plug into a Countryman D.I., and I also carry a Radial JDI in my gig bag. I'm wondering if I'll be given two separate channels for my GED, but I have my doubts.
From what I'm reading here the Sansamp D.I. pedal is well regarded from most Sound folks. Maybe I should look into buying one......
I'm still in the learning stage with my GED-2112. I've typically had very few gigs with P.A. support, but with the band I'm in now, I'm most likely to be ran into a P.A. when we play summer festivals.
I've found Sound folks typically prefer a no-hassle approach to the bass. Most have had me plug into a Countryman D.I., and I also carry a Radial JDI in my gig bag. I'm wondering if I'll be given two separate channels for my GED, but I have my doubts.
From what I'm reading here the Sansamp D.I. pedal is well regarded from most Sound folks. Maybe I should look into buying one......
Al Kraft
Supporting Member
- May 2, 2016
- 10,768
- 40,442
- Disclosures
- Mesa Boogie beta product tester and player support
Arthur I've never had anyone turn down the BDDI after they heard the sound, and most sound techs instantly recognized the box and considered it high end gear. My guess is that the rack mount versions would be even better.
IME there are two types of sound engineers: those with enough experience to have seen a few cross their path and like them... and those that have no clue what they are.
I'll admit that the majority of the sound engineers I happen to work with seemingly fall into the second category, but I'm usually up front about what I'm running, and I've never had any from either category give me a hard time about it.
I'm hoping to someday run both channels into a large P.A.. I don't see the GED has a pre gain/post gain switch on it's back panel. So basically if I tweak my settings or volumes during a set, I'd be altering what's being sent to the board. I'm guessing this is frowned upon from a Soundman's perspective.
I'd suspect so if they're not expecting it. It's the reason why I still use my SansAmp in front of an actual amp. I have the SansAmp dialed-in for what I want to send to the board, and then any other tweaks are done at the amp (which starts set ruler flat) for myself as needed.
It might not be the minimalist, amp-less rig that some want, but it works well for my needs - and who am I kidding, I love having an actual amp behind me!
I run a dual rig so I don't even give the sound guy a choice.
I hand them 2 color-coded mic cables and give them a quick rundown.
I hand them 2 color-coded mic cables and give them a quick rundown.
I found that when you present FOH with an unknown factor most of them are hesitant. Those that know Sansamps for bass love them, so much is true - and those who don't know them quickly fall in love with them, because they are as plug&play as it can possibly get.
I had a slew of SansAmp gear and vowed to sell-off everything but one component. They sold quickly...with the exception of this which I use in my pre / power rig:
The original and now red-haired step-child. DI output too hot? No problem...just take your jeweler's screwdriver and adjust the trim pot on the rear of the chassis. Blend....who needs it?!?
Riis
The original and now red-haired step-child. DI output too hot? No problem...just take your jeweler's screwdriver and adjust the trim pot on the rear of the chassis. Blend....who needs it?!?
Riis
That's awesome - I'm admittedly not very familiar with that unit, but the Tech 21 site had a sweet bass demo clip still up for it.
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Well, I know you aren't really given the option with yours, bit as of late I've been of the same mind even with the blend option available!
